Pseudonymph

Hello everyone...this is my first topic in this forum, so please go easy if this is the wrong place.


As you can tell from the above subject, I am interested in knowing what, if anything you as a non-Christian can take from the bible as being constructive advice, or perhaps a feasible occurance of significance.

For example, and to get things started...I have always liked the story about the adulteress.


Now I'm not saying this is any evidence of...well anything really. I'm just saying there appears to be an interesting lesson here.

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

I think that says quite a lot. So what do you think? Do you think any good or accuracy can come from such a book? Even in the purely historical sense?

Thanks for your time and I'm hoping this will be an interesting discussion.

-DM-

Since, according to Christian theology, none of us is without sin, then none of us should ever cast the first stone, therefore there would be what? No criticism of anyone by anyone else? No punishment of any sort for breaking the law? What?

That seems quite impractical to me, almost as impractical as: "Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; . . . Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Note that Christians, especially the Christian Right, don't seem to worry much about this admonition when it comes to our "enemies" such as the Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc.)

Yes, of course. There is some history and some fiction in the Bible. Yes, there is some good advice here and there and some bad advice here and there. The way that I see it, what is "good" and what is "bad" in the Bible has to be measured by other more-reliable sources. Unfortunately, however, too many people measure everything else by the Bible, assuming that the Bible is the "God-given" measure of all.

-Don-

Pseudonymph

Right....which is what I hope to avoid in this thread. I'm not looking for "The bible said it so it's great"...but more along the lines of what you mentioned.

You made some good points...I would like to comment.


Well this seems in keeping with Jesus' mood swings. Remember I'm not necessarily looking for consistency here, just good lessons.

Surely we can replace the word "sin" with "mistakes" and have it make a little more sense to us?

I guess I am foolish, because I do try and live by something along those lines. I do believe that an eye for an eye leaves the world blinded. I always try to remember and "turn the other cheek" so to speak.


Thanks again for your comments...

Kosh

I agree 100%, which is why I've always supported thong bikinis....

kalamasutta

SirenSpeak,

I was just surfing around a few of the various discussion boards and saw your thread. Personally, I think a lot of the bible stories have become a bit domesticated over the years...........cultures change and the original "hit" of the stories - what makes you have to stop and think - disappears. (perhaps its the real world that should make us stop and think, but you speak of the Bible.)

Nowadays "adultery" is pretty commonplace, and a guy who reacts as Jesus did seems rather kind, if a bit dozy and, as Don Morgan says, impractical. Yet in the time of Jesus the family was all, the bedrock of society, and whatever threatened it was seen with true repugnance.

Just change the story to "the man taken in Paedophilia" and your'll perhaps get the gist of the plot. The story begins to ask questions of us and our attitudes. Most of us who found ourselves with a stone............

It seems the same with the Good Samaritan, a nice story to warm the heart. Yet when the "good samaritan" becomes the "good asylum seeker", and those that pass by on the other side come from "middle England", own their own home and have 2.5 children, the warmth tends to disappear!

(And according to some Jewish commentaries, the good old "eye for an eye"...........according to context, say some distiguished rabbis, this was originally a doctrine of equality before the law, not one of vengence.

Butters

Well, that works good for adultry, but what about murder?

-DM-

You would obviously have to place limits on this behavior.

Would you, for example, were you raped then offer to allow your rapist to do it again--or to sodomize you?

Do you have a child? Would you suggest that s/he turn the other cheek to an older, larger, bully? To a predator-pedophile?

--

With regard to your comment about an eye for an eye, that is not the only alternative to "turn the other cheek," not by any means. In the situation that I asked you about a child, I would likely suggest to my child that a better alternative to either "an eye for an eye" or to "turn the other cheek" is that to get the hell away from the bully or predator if at all possible. I would try to include instruction about the best way to do that as well as about how best to preclude getting into that situation again.

So no, I don't think that either and "eye for an eye" or "turn the other cheek" are practical precepts, at least not in many, many situations.

-Don-

-DM-

"Sin" and "mistake" are hardly synonymous.

One of the principles of Bible exegesis is to take the words at face value unless there is some compelling reason not to do so (e.g. context).

"Mistake" means "an error or a fault resulting from defective judgment, deficient knowledge, or carelessness."

In the context of the Bible, "sin" has a specific meaning; "sin" involves a deliberate disobedience to the "known will of God."

Adultery was on the list of sins. Thus Jesus--if he even said what is attributed to him in this situation--wasn't talking about a mere "mistake." So no, we cannot legitimately replace "sin" with "mistakes" and have it make sense in the context of the Bible and the alleged words of Jesus.

-Don-

[ December 16, 2002: Message edited by: Don Morgan ]</p>

Bobzammel

Problem is, who can honestly know the will of God? It's not like he talks to anyone. People can say they have the Holy Spirit, but it seems to tell them different and contradictory things!

-DM-

True. Back when I was a devout Christian who was being "discipled" by my pastor, one of the most discouraging things to me was that--although we prayed earnestly before each session for the guidance of the Holy Spirit--we often came to radically different and mutually exclusive interpretations of the scripture passages we were studying.

Still, in the context of this discussion, it can be assumed that the "God" of the Bible, the "God" of Christianity, holds that adultery is a sin.

-Don-