ybnormal

Just for the record regarding ole yb personally...

For MY part here, this has nothing to do with "mindset" or possibly being angry from being "treated like crap" by xians.

It ONLY has to do with factually rephrasing xian's own words, doctrine and current activist stategy, meant to elicit an agreement, a denial or an explanation.

(their emotional reactions tend to demonstrate some of that diversionary activism)

I made a factual, non-personal statement based on basic xian publicly stated doctrine.

The resulting response did not address the facts amid its personal chidings.

I clarified and explained my charge, basically asking this in return, with his/her words in bold...

"Please tell us exactly how there can be any mutual understanding when the main xian goal is simply to eliminate the folks who you insist should be understanding of that goal to eliminate them."

Anyone?

Bree

Im sorry if it seemed that I was trying to put words in your mouth, yb - I was just posting from personal experience.

Infinity Lover

You and RufusAtticus must be two minds that really really think alike.

ybnormal

That's cool, Bree... you owe ME no "sorry"... I would more owe you one... altho I did figure I had maybe been a bit of a catalyst, I just used your words to preempt the slew of angry posts I always get upon some folks seeing my, too-graphically-honest-for-the-timid charges.

wildernesse

ybnormal, I will answer your questions here.

--tibac

Shake

You've been in that mindset all your life? That atheists do not respect you or your viewpoints? Hmmm. Exactly how many atheists have you known in your life? Yes, since you were a little child. You must have known lots to hold this viewpoint. I think you're just trying to be funny here. Statistics that have been mentioned on these boards many times will support the fact this country has a majority of Xians, and so I don't believe that all the atheists lived near you and harrassed you "all your life." Atheists are the ones who have been persecuted for their lack of belief. A minority (atheists) can be an annoyance to the majority (Xians), but cannot persecute them!

wildernesse

Yes, Rufus is just being silly--as he himself is an atheist. By shooting Bree's words right back at her, he *is* parroting the reason why I think so many believers react so horrendously when they learn their loved ones are atheists.

To many people, atheists are bad people who hate God and religious people; want to actively drive religion out of everyone's lives all the time; are arrogant, haughty, prideful; practice all sorts of immorality because they have no moral guidance, etc.

Of course, that's not really descriptive of atheists--but if that is their predjudgement or their conclusion based on interacting with atheists, then that's the experience they expect. Likewise for Christians--however, it is important to realize that your generalization, even one based on personal experience is still a generalization and as such is not going to accurately describe everyone.

Also, a minority certainly can persecute the majority--think of apartheid.

--tibac

Arrowman

Based on the "philly.com" story, it seems we have a while to go before we know what happened to the boy, and who's responsible. Clearly, based on their "handling" of the mother's illness, the family would not have sought proper treatment for an extant illness in the boy - but was there an extant illness? Seeing as how he died so quickly, one has to assume that there were some symptoms worthy of investigation, but then again there are some diseases, I suppose, that can just sneak up on you - and even a skeptical atheist family might not get treatment in time. It is interesting that the DHS people apparently weren't alarmed enough to do more than "follow up in a day or so"; so it seems to me that either
a) DHS (as well as, or even instead of, the parents) will cop some flack if/when it is shown that there were signs they should have noticed; or
b) If DHS couldn't have been expected to act, then can the parents be held accountable?

To be strictly fair, I'd have to say that if DHS didn't feel obliged to act, then maybe - and obviously we need more information - the parents are off the hook too. The fact that we "know" that even if there had been obvious symptoms they still wouldn't have acted, is not relevant (strictly) in this particular case.

On the more general subject of "child neglect" I don't know the law in the US or in that state, but I suspect that in most jurisdictions the agency would be quite empowered to forcibly take the child for treatment is it were apparent that (a) there was an illness and (b) the parents weren't going to do anything about it - religious beliefs or not.

Yeah, I wish more parents dressed their kids nicely and then refused medical treatment, too. How do people get away with being such obvious dickheads, just because they're good Christians and their kids are polite?

beyelzu

I can not respect the xian veiwpoint, as it is based on fantasy and myth and irrationality. What is there to respect. I can respect a theist, and I certainly think that theists have a right to express themselves, as all people should.


It is not wrong to tell someone that they are wrong when they are wrong.


How do you respect someone who thinks that you deserve eternal damnation anyway, how much middle ground can there really be?

RufusAtticus

I can not respect the atheist veiwpoint, as it is based on hatred, arrogance, and denial. What is there to respect? I can respect a atheist, and I certainly think that atheists have a right to express themselves, as all people should.

It is not wrong to tell someone that they are wrong when they are wrong?

How do you respect someone who lives their life like there is no eternal damnation waiting for them, how much middle ground can there really be?