Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Hayden · 01-23-2003, 12:54 PM

I've been wondering about this lately: who would let their child read an un-edited Old and New Testament, with its descriptions of rape, incest, genocide, murder, etc; not to mention the horrible story of our eternal punishment for our ancestors' sins, and the blood sacrifice that supposedly saved us?

If so, at what age?

HR

Mad Kally · 01-23-2003, 01:01 PM

Never. At least not until they moved out of my house. It's the most disgusting book ever written. I might tell them it's a book of real bad fairy tales and there's no need to see it as there are plenty of nice fairy tales around.

Although it might be fun to show a 15 year old the SAB and have a few morbid laughs at the thought that people actually believe this sickening crap.

Melkor · 01-23-2003, 01:02 PM

I started reading Stephen King novels when I was 13... scary stuff, but I think I was old enough to handle Carrie and The Shining.

I was already an atheist, for all intents and purposes, at that age as well; I doubt that my mind would have been shifted from that course by anything literary.

I think the average kid, however, is a bit more impressionable at that age than I was... I wasn't really very "average" in a lot of ways.

And the Bibbble is bloody awful reading, when it comes down to it.... it's poorly written, obscure and vague, and it contains much more violence and many more outrageous, sickening acts than the average Stephen King novel. I think I'd take issue with any kid of mine reading it before 15 or so.

I would in the least want to be involved in any such reading and make myself available for discussion on the topic so that it doesn't warp their mind any more than any other bizarre fiction would. It's really not appropriate reading for kids.

beastmaster · 01-23-2003, 01:10 PM

The earlier the better. I'd rather my child read what it actually says before some liar tries to give the "Good News." In reality, however, the Bible is too boring to read before adolescence anyway.

Oxymoron · 01-23-2003, 01:11 PM

Know thy enemy... as long as my children are given the other side of the story, I have no problem with them reading a big book of silly stories, no matter how many loonies out there think it's for real.

As for the nasty content, children's nursery rhymes are pretty evil when it comes down to it (plague, horrible punishments, sexual references...). Not that this makes it all right, but it demonstrates it isn't going to be fatally corrupting.

Psycho Economist · 01-23-2003, 01:26 PM

I don't know that any age is appropriate or inappropriate. Certainly, they'd have to have a good grasp of the difference between reality and fantasy. And one hell of an attention span. Even relatively narrative books are a pain, at least in the KJV. I got my bible (a nice leather-bound one for taking to church) when I was 10. I've read through Exodus, Joshua and a couple gospels... but didn't have the attention span to retain it. I also tried to read The Illiad when I was in 6th grade. Gave up on that one outright.

Its depections of rape and murder are generally hands-off, relative to a contemporary crime or war novel meant for adults. The sections about discharges in the Old Testament is pretty unpalitable, though.

Mad Kally · 01-23-2003, 01:38 PM

Quote:

posted by beastmaster:
The earlier the better. I'd rather my child read what it actually says before some liar tries to give the "Good News."

Good point. I read the complete works of Edgar Allen Poe at around 10 years old. Lucky for me my parents didn't know what the content was. When I read a book called "The Naked Ape" at age 14, I instantly knew everything I had been told (by YEC fundies) was BS.

I don't understand why otherwise intellilgent people never "get it". Maybe because I was taught the bible was the literal Truth, every word of it? How crazy is that?

HaysooChreesto! · 01-23-2003, 01:38 PM

If a child is interested, they should be allowed to read. Just make sure that when questions arise that you're capable of answering them.
I'll never tell my kids what they can and can't read. That's what fundies do.
Besides, give a kid a Bible to read and their interest will wane quickly enough. It takes dedication to wade through the thees, thous, Meshaks, Shadraks, and Abednigos of the Bible.

beyelzu · 01-23-2003, 03:02 PM

I also think that children should be allowed to read the bible whenever they want to. With parental supervision to encourage critical thinking skills. I think that a proper understanding of the bible is one of the best ways to not be christian.

Darwin's Finch · 01-23-2003, 03:27 PM

I read the Bible to my eight-year-old, a few chapters at a time, when we're both in the mood. We started at the beginning and are now into Exodus. Whenever I get to one of the really "fascinating" chapters with the damn geneological lists, I paraphrase and move on. I certainly don't expect to bore the shit out of him with Leviticus or anything like that, but as long as he maintains some kind of interest, I'll try to hit all of the high points.

It's been interesting to see his reactions. He was appalled by: God (I always refer to him as Yahweh, just to hammer home the tribal nature of this deity) cursing Adam and Eve, the flood story, the Isaac aborted-sacrifice story, Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot's daughters, Jacob screwing his brother out of his birthright, and Joseph's brothers' behavior. We're almost to the plaques in Egypt, and I suspect he will react in a similar fashion. He also openly chuckles at some of the more outrageous "miracles".

I always ask him to tell me what he thinks about what we've read, and we discuss it. If nothing else, the Bible is a wonderful pedagogical tool for helping kids refine their sense of rationality and of right and wrong. And yes, I believe that an early exposure to the Bible -- before the Jesus-loves-you-huggy-huggy crowd have a chance to sink their propaganda hooks into the child -- is one of the best preventative tonics a parent can give a kid.

Besides, some of the stories are quite entertaining once you get past the wooden prose.

View Poll Results: Would you let your child read the Bible, and if so, at what age?
Yes, at any age	28	41.18%
Yes, at 5 years	1	1.47%
Yes, at 8 years	6	8.82%
Yes, at 10 years	6	8.82%
Yes, at 13 years	11	16.18%
Yes, at 15 years	7	10.29%
No	9	13.24%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

01-23-2003, 12:54 PM	#1
Hayden Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 712	Would you let your (young) child read the Bible? I've been wondering about this lately: who would let their child read an un-edited Old and New Testament, with its descriptions of rape, incest, genocide, murder, etc; not to mention the horrible story of our eternal punishment for our ancestors' sins, and the blood sacrifice that supposedly saved us? If so, at what age? HR

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01-23-2003, 01:01 PM	#2
Mad Kally Banned Join Date: May 2001 Location: LALA Land in California Posts: 3,764	Never. At least not until they moved out of my house. It's the most disgusting book ever written. I might tell them it's a book of real bad fairy tales and there's no need to see it as there are plenty of nice fairy tales around. Although it might be fun to show a 15 year old the SAB and have a few morbid laughs at the thought that people actually believe this sickening crap.

01-23-2003, 01:02 PM	#3
Melkor Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Void Posts: 396	I started reading Stephen King novels when I was 13... scary stuff, but I think I was old enough to handle Carrie and The Shining. I was already an atheist, for all intents and purposes, at that age as well; I doubt that my mind would have been shifted from that course by anything literary. I think the average kid, however, is a bit more impressionable at that age than I was... I wasn't really very "average" in a lot of ways. And the Bibbble is bloody awful reading, when it comes down to it.... it's poorly written, obscure and vague, and it contains much more violence and many more outrageous, sickening acts than the average Stephen King novel. I think I'd take issue with any kid of mine reading it before 15 or so. I would in the least want to be involved in any such reading and make myself available for discussion on the topic so that it doesn't warp their mind any more than any other bizarre fiction would. It's really not appropriate reading for kids.

01-23-2003, 01:10 PM	#4
beastmaster Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Madrid / I am a: Lifelong atheist Posts: 885	The earlier the better. I'd rather my child read what it actually says before some liar tries to give the "Good News." In reality, however, the Bible is too boring to read before adolescence anyway.

01-23-2003, 01:11 PM	#5
Oxymoron Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: http://10.0.0.2/ Posts: 6,623	Know thy enemy... as long as my children are given the other side of the story, I have no problem with them reading a big book of silly stories, no matter how many loonies out there think it's for real. As for the nasty content, children's nursery rhymes are pretty evil when it comes down to it (plague, horrible punishments, sexual references...). Not that this makes it all right, but it demonstrates it isn't going to be fatally corrupting.

01-23-2003, 01:26 PM	#6
Psycho Economist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 854	I don't know that any age is appropriate or inappropriate. Certainly, they'd have to have a good grasp of the difference between reality and fantasy. And one hell of an attention span. Even relatively narrative books are a pain, at least in the KJV. I got my bible (a nice leather-bound one for taking to church) when I was 10. I've read through Exodus, Joshua and a couple gospels... but didn't have the attention span to retain it. I also tried to read The Illiad when I was in 6th grade. Gave up on that one outright. Its depections of rape and murder are generally hands-off, relative to a contemporary crime or war novel meant for adults. The sections about discharges in the Old Testament is pretty unpalitable, though.

01-23-2003, 01:38 PM	#8
HaysooChreesto! Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: SoCal USA Posts: 7,737	If a child is interested, they should be allowed to read. Just make sure that when questions arise that you're capable of answering them. I'll never tell my kids what they can and can't read. That's what fundies do. Besides, give a kid a Bible to read and their interest will wane quickly enough. It takes dedication to wade through the thees, thous, Meshaks, Shadraks, and Abednigos of the Bible.

01-23-2003, 03:02 PM	#9
beyelzu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the peach state ga I am a metaphysical naturalist Posts: 2,869	I also think that children should be allowed to read the bible whenever they want to. With parental supervision to encourage critical thinking skills. I think that a proper understanding of the bible is one of the best ways to not be christian.

01-23-2003, 03:27 PM	#10
Darwin's Finch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Gardnerville, NV Posts: 666	I read the Bible to my eight-year-old, a few chapters at a time, when we're both in the mood. We started at the beginning and are now into Exodus. Whenever I get to one of the really "fascinating" chapters with the damn geneological lists, I paraphrase and move on. I certainly don't expect to bore the shit out of him with Leviticus or anything like that, but as long as he maintains some kind of interest, I'll try to hit all of the high points. It's been interesting to see his reactions. He was appalled by: God (I always refer to him as Yahweh, just to hammer home the tribal nature of this deity) cursing Adam and Eve, the flood story, the Isaac aborted-sacrifice story, Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot's daughters, Jacob screwing his brother out of his birthright, and Joseph's brothers' behavior. We're almost to the plaques in Egypt, and I suspect he will react in a similar fashion. He also openly chuckles at some of the more outrageous "miracles". I always ask him to tell me what he thinks about what we've read, and we discuss it. If nothing else, the Bible is a wonderful pedagogical tool for helping kids refine their sense of rationality and of right and wrong. And yes, I believe that an early exposure to the Bible -- before the Jesus-loves-you-huggy-huggy crowd have a chance to sink their propaganda hooks into the child -- is one of the best preventative tonics a parent can give a kid. Besides, some of the stories are quite entertaining once you get past the wooden prose.

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