Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Rusting Car Bumper · 01-14-2003, 09:28 AM

Unitarian Universalists may add 'God' to beliefs

Quote:

FORT WORTH - A former atheist who is now president of the Unitarian Universalist Association will push to put the word "God" into a new statement of principles of the Boston-based, liberal church group, he said Sunday.

"God" was not mentioned in a statement of principles approved in 1984, the Rev. William Sinkford said at First Jefferson Unitarian Universalist Church. That reduces the document's effectiveness in comforting people and also puts the denomination out on the fringe of religious life in America, Sinkford said.

Not good news....

DC

Eudaimonist · 01-14-2003, 09:59 AM

Not good news, but not surprising. Eclecticism is unstable in the long run. Eventually, some group will not be happy with compromise.

Shake · 01-14-2003, 10:00 AM

Quote:

says Mr. Sinkford:
"These are troubled times, and we need to reclaim our goals and values," Sinkford said in a message at First Jefferson. "We need to be able to say Unitarian Universalists believe there is one God, and that God is a loving God who would condemn no one out of hand."

The First and Second World Wars were not troubled times? God was not in the PoA then, and I would assume, not part of UU doctrine then either. So why add it now?

Quote:

The denomination's principle statement now affirms such things as "the inherent worth and dignity of every person; justice, equity and compassion in human relations; acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations, a free and responsible search for truth and meaning and the right of conscience."

So what's wrong with this?

Myself and others on these boards have in the past actually recommended UU churches to those who were losing faith or having doubts about their beliefs. There are plenty of others who accept and even embrace, the lack of a godhead figure in their religion. It seems to me that this will have the opposite effect and actually drive many people away from UU churches. Now while I don't have a problem with that, it will be troublesome for those who still feel they need to fill the social gap with a church-like atmosphere.

Not good news, indeed! :banghead:

Rusting Car Bumper · 01-14-2003, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shake
Now while I don't have a problem with that, it will be troublesome for those who still feel they need to fill the social gap with a church-like atmosphere.

Not good news, indeed! :banghead:

Churches and religious gathering places help some people with a need for community focus. I wouldn't at all slight anyone of any religion that good part of religion.

You language, when read in a certain way, (i.e., "...still feel the need...") might suggest that this need is extraneous and unimportant. Actually I think its part of human social nature and thus very important. That's why I don't have a problem with the church concept. and that's why I am a member of The Church of Freethought.

UU is very admirable and it is a place where non-believers can find a place. It would be sad if non-believers were pushed aside and ignored.

DC

Eudaimonist · 01-14-2003, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DigitalChicken
Actually I think its part of human social nature and thus very important. That's why I don't have a problem with the church concept. and that's why I am a member of The Church of Freethought.

This is true. Just like you, this is one reason why I'm a member of Fellowship of Reason�. I personally think that nontheist communities are the wave of the future, but I admit I may be biased.

Quote:

UU is very admirable and it is a place where non-believers can find a place. It would be sad if non-believers were pushed aside and ignored.

Yes, this would be a shame. I can see many people getting hurt over this. I wonder if the UU organization will splinter, with one faction being the nontheists.

Shake · 01-14-2003, 10:19 AM

Let me clarify, DC, if I may. Some folks when deconverting still feel the need to be social in a similar setting. Others find other outlets for such needs. I wasn't trying to say that this need is somehow unimportant or silly. I just know that some people don't feel the need to replace going to church with some other similar social gathering. Some people are less social than others.

I agree that UU is an admirable organization, which is why I have recommended it to others in the past. That is also what makes this story so sad.

Eudaimonist · 01-14-2003, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shake
I just know that some people don't feel the need to replace going to church with some other similar social gathering. Some people are less social than others.

Shake, of course you are right about that. Some people either don't feel any motivation to join a community, or are "allergic" to the very idea of a "church" after having had bad experiences with a Christian church. Everyone needs to use their own judgment to figure out their best path to happiness.

Goliath · 01-14-2003, 12:59 PM

I'm not at all surprised at this, and in fact, I was wondering when it was going to happen. I'm glad I was never a part of UU, and now I will make sure to never support them in any way, shape, or form.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Rusting Car Bumper · 01-14-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Goliath
I'm not at all surprised at this, and in fact, I was wondering when it was going to happen. I'm glad I was never a part of UU, and now I will make sure to never support them in any way, shape, or form.

Sincerely,

Goliath

That's rather premature. Its just one guy suggesting this even if he happens to be the President of the organization. They do things by democracy and its quite possible the suggestion will get shot down.

DC

echoes · 01-14-2003, 10:10 PM

As I type this, I am wearing a necklace with a chalice (UU symbol) that was a gift to me. As an atheist I have always supported many UU ideals. As some have already stated, it's a little premature to conclude anything, but it's definitely concerning that their president wants to do what is in my opinion, in contradiction with UU values.

What do UUs believe about God?

Some Unitarian Universalists are nontheists and do not find language about God useful. The faith of other Unitarian Universalists in God may be profound, though among these, too, talk of God may be restrained. Why?

The word God is much abused. Far too often, the word seems to refer to a kind of granddaddy in the sky or a super magician. To avoid confusion, many Unitarian Universalists are more apt to speak of "reverence for life" (in the words of Albert Schweitzer, a Unitarian), the spirit of love or truth, the holy, or the gracious. Many also prefer such language because it is inclusive; it is used with integrity by theist and nontheist members.

Whatever our theological persuasion, Unitarian Universalists generally agree that the fruits of religious belief matter more than beliefs about religion-even about God. So we usually speak more of the fruits: gratitude for blessings, worthy aspirations, the renewal of hope, and service on behalf of justice.*

Shake: Unitarian Universalism didn't exist during WWI or WWII, although I imagine that it was during the early 20th century that UU beliefs started to really come together, culminating in the merger of Unitarianism and Universalism in 1961.*

* From www.uua.org

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01-14-2003, 09:59 AM	#2
Eudaimonist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sundsvall, Sweden Posts: 3,159	Not good news, but not surprising. Eclecticism is unstable in the long run. Eventually, some group will not be happy with compromise.

01-14-2003, 10:19 AM	#6
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	Let me clarify, DC, if I may. Some folks when deconverting still feel the need to be social in a similar setting. Others find other outlets for such needs. I wasn't trying to say that this need is somehow unimportant or silly. I just know that some people don't feel the need to replace going to church with some other similar social gathering. Some people are less social than others. I agree that UU is an admirable organization, which is why I have recommended it to others in the past. That is also what makes this story so sad.

01-14-2003, 12:59 PM	#8
Goliath Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fargo, ND, USA Posts: 1,849	I'm not at all surprised at this, and in fact, I was wondering when it was going to happen. I'm glad I was never a part of UU, and now I will make sure to never support them in any way, shape, or form. Sincerely, Goliath

01-14-2003, 10:10 PM	#10
echoes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: PUERTO RICO Posts: 750	As I type this, I am wearing a necklace with a chalice (UU symbol) that was a gift to me. As an atheist I have always supported many UU ideals. As some have already stated, it's a little premature to conclude anything, but it's definitely concerning that their president wants to do what is in my opinion, in contradiction with UU values. What do UUs believe about God? Some Unitarian Universalists are nontheists and do not find language about God useful. The faith of other Unitarian Universalists in God may be profound, though among these, too, talk of God may be restrained. Why? The word God is much abused. Far too often, the word seems to refer to a kind of granddaddy in the sky or a super magician. To avoid confusion, many Unitarian Universalists are more apt to speak of "reverence for life" (in the words of Albert Schweitzer, a Unitarian), the spirit of love or truth, the holy, or the gracious. Many also prefer such language because it is inclusive; it is used with integrity by theist and nontheist members. Whatever our theological persuasion, Unitarian Universalists generally agree that the fruits of religious belief matter more than beliefs about religion-even about God. So we usually speak more of the fruits: gratitude for blessings, worthy aspirations, the renewal of hope, and service on behalf of justice.* Shake: Unitarian Universalism didn't exist during WWI or WWII, although I imagine that it was during the early 20th century that UU beliefs started to really come together, culminating in the merger of Unitarianism and Universalism in 1961.* * From www.uua.org

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