Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Carrie · 03-14-2003, 05:19 PM

I was raised a Catholic. Then on my own I became a fundamentalist protestant. I just recently stopped believing.
My family (uncles and aunts, grandma, mom, cousins) are all Catholics. When I was a fundamentalist, they tolerated it, and still loved me, but one uncle was always cracking jokes and seemed irritated at me. I know they thought my beliefs were stupid. And they were right.

But now, I've done a total 180 turn and don't even believe in Jesus anymore. My family are liberal Catholics, but they still believe in Jesus. They'll be happy if I tell them I'm not a fundamentalist anymore, but I don't know what will happen if I tell them I don't even believe in Jesus. I do believe in some kind of "god" but not god in the usual sense. And I'm not even sure about that.

So, it seems to me, like not believing in Jesus is no big deal. To me, if the Bible is so untrustworthy, how could I believe in Jesus? Yet my family does not trust or follow much of the Bible, yet they still believe in Jesus and go to Mass. I don't understand it.

So how do people react when you tell them you don't believe in Jesus. Will it be a bigger deal to them than I think? Will they be shocked? Disgusted? Think I'm evil? Doomed? The last thing I want is them trying to "save" me by trying to tell me I should believe in Jesus. Then I'd have to tell them all the reasons why I don't believe in him. And how would they handle that?

Anyone have experience in this area? Is it better to just not tell them what I believe? I do want to be myself, but is that a good idea? (Oh, also my fundamentalist other grandparents don't know I'm not a Christian anymore. But I'm not telling them, because I know they will try to "save" me for sure).

Thanks,
Carrie

Abbasux · 03-14-2003, 05:54 PM

hey Carrie
I got kicked out for telling my dad that I dont believe. I hope everything works out for you.

Godless Dave · 03-14-2003, 05:59 PM

Do you need to tell them anything right now? How soon do you expect it to come up? You could just tell them, if they ask, that you don't go to that church anymore. If they keep asking tell them you'd prefer not to talk about it. If they invite you to mass, decline. After that I don't know what to do. But don't rush into telling them anything.

Muad'Dib · 03-14-2003, 06:38 PM

Hi Carrie,

My suggestion would be to wait to share with your parents until you feel you can discuss things calmly and clearly. That is good for both you and them: you won't feel like you're losing control, and they won't feel as alienated as they would if it turned into a shouting match.

Another thing to be aware of is that your new beliefs will not be the only issue on the table. For my mom, my new lack of belief was not as hard to deal with as her realization that she had to stop thinking of me as a child (I'm her oldest, and it's always hard to let the oldest child go). Your parents will most likely have different issues, but you can bet that whatever those issues are, they will play a role in the discussion. Keep in mind that you may not need to defend your new position intellectually so much as reassure them that you're not rejecting them--though you may need to do both, and it takes a lot of sensitivity to find the right balance. That's why a lot of people here have chosen to come out to their parents through letters or e-mail; writing lets you say calmly what you want to say without being flustered by the pressures of the moment.

In the meantime, if you want to delay coming out, you might try to find some reason to avoid mass that is consistent with both your new and old beliefs, so that you can tell the truth and nothing but the truth (just not the whole truth). This is what I did to avoid going to church when I visited my parents; I told them many (though not all) of my objections to the Church of Christ's doctrines and that I didn't think I could be a part of that group any more. (This was based on my knowledge that neither of them was particularly fond of the CoC either--you've got to fit your reasons to your audience.) I don't view this approach as disingenuous at all--it's being partially honest until the time is right to be completely honest.

You may want to think about putting something in writing, even if you'd rather tell your parents in person, because writing it down will give you a feel for all that you want to say, and even clarify your thinking about some things.

Regardless of what you decide to do, I wish you the best, and hope that you'll keep us posted!

-Leighton

Vorkosigan · 03-14-2003, 07:06 PM

NO! NO! NO! The possible bads far outweigh the possible goods. Keep it to yourself until you have worked it for yourself how you feel, and until you are old enough to support yourself. You cannot believe how quickly decent Jesus-loving Christians will turn into Nazis if you don't believe as they do.

Yet my family does not trust or follow much of the Bible, yet they still believe in Jesus and go to Mass. I don't understand it.

People go out of habit, or fear that others will think them bad, or because they derive comfort from the community and ritual even when they do not believe.

Vorkosigan

Proxima Centauri · 03-15-2003, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie

I do believe in some kind of "god" but not god in the usual sense. And I'm not even sure about that.
Oh, also my fundamentalist other grandparents don't know I'm not a Christian anymore. But I'm not telling them, because I know they will try to "save" me for sure).
Thanks,
Carrie

You haven't old us if you can support yourself or not.. Certainly you should avoid problems with people trying to save you till you are surer of your beliefs.
THE ATHEISM WEB and THE SECULAR WEB will tell you plenty which will help you think logically. These web sites will also help you sort out the illogic which believers keep telling you.

Vicar Philip · 03-15-2003, 09:38 AM

Carrie,

Your profile mentioned your husband still being a fundamentalist. Have you and he talked openly about your change in beliefs? If you haven't, I would suggest you do so as soon as possible. I didn't see any mention of children, and I would strongly encourage you to get this religion issue out of the way before any little ones enter the picture.

Vicar

Carrie · 03-17-2003, 11:38 AM

Thanks all. Good advice here. As for my mom and dad, they are okay with my change in beliefs. And my husband and I have talked, and he doesn't like it of course, but he's okay. We both know we have to have a talk about children.

I think what I might do is just let him teach the kids about religion, and they'll just know that mommy doesn't believe in it. If they want to know about why I doubt, I'll tell them that they'll have to wait until they are old enough so they can look into it for themselves.

I don't like the idea of them having to grow up religious, but it won't kill them, and it could save my marriage. Otherwise, if I teach the kids to doubt, their dad would be pissed at me and worried that they'd go to hell. Whereas I would have no such worry if they didn't believe my way.

And besides, I don't think they'll necessarily be brainwashed for life. (Lots of kids who are raised religiously end up rebelling against it). And if I tell my kids that I don't believe the Bible, that will at least spark their curiosity and get them to consider that it might not be true. (They'll just have to know that preaching to mommy is not going to be allowed). Also, how many kids WANT to live as Christians? In my church, they'd be taught that they have to go preach to people, and they can't date non-Christians, and can't have pre-marital sex, etc. But they'll know that mom does not believe all of that, and maybe they'll think I have good reason not to. (But I will enforce whatever rules my husbands decides on, and then when they are 18 they can do what they want).

Hopefully once they are old enough, they'll know enough about the Bible to see it for what it is; just a man-made book. But if they end up being fundies for life, well that's their choice, and I'll still love them.

Shake · 03-20-2003, 10:20 AM

I'd say not unless it comes up. Unless you're ready and willing to out yourself and face whatever consequences there might be, I'd say wait until you're confronted about it. Ultimately, it should be whenever it's most comfortable for you, if it's within your control, which it might not be. Good luck. I'm facing a similar, albeit less potentially hostile situation.

The Other Michael · 03-20-2003, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
(But I will enforce whatever rules my husbands decides on, and then when they are 18 they can do what they want).

Hi Carrie,

I'm concerned by that statement. Don't you get a say, or is this going to be a one-parent family instead of a partnership?

I could see the kids getting the idea that their atheist mom is submissive/subservient to their fundy dad, and maybe that's the normal order of things.

It sounds like while you may have repudiated the religious beliefs, you've still got some of the stereotypes (submissive wife, dominant husband) internalized.

I hope I'm misconstruing your comment.

cheers,
Michael

03-14-2003, 05:19 PM	#1
Carrie Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 424	Should I tell my family I don't believe in Jesus? I was raised a Catholic. Then on my own I became a fundamentalist protestant. I just recently stopped believing. My family (uncles and aunts, grandma, mom, cousins) are all Catholics. When I was a fundamentalist, they tolerated it, and still loved me, but one uncle was always cracking jokes and seemed irritated at me. I know they thought my beliefs were stupid. And they were right. But now, I've done a total 180 turn and don't even believe in Jesus anymore. My family are liberal Catholics, but they still believe in Jesus. They'll be happy if I tell them I'm not a fundamentalist anymore, but I don't know what will happen if I tell them I don't even believe in Jesus. I do believe in some kind of "god" but not god in the usual sense. And I'm not even sure about that. So, it seems to me, like not believing in Jesus is no big deal. To me, if the Bible is so untrustworthy, how could I believe in Jesus? Yet my family does not trust or follow much of the Bible, yet they still believe in Jesus and go to Mass. I don't understand it. So how do people react when you tell them you don't believe in Jesus. Will it be a bigger deal to them than I think? Will they be shocked? Disgusted? Think I'm evil? Doomed? The last thing I want is them trying to "save" me by trying to tell me I should believe in Jesus. Then I'd have to tell them all the reasons why I don't believe in him. And how would they handle that? Anyone have experience in this area? Is it better to just not tell them what I believe? I do want to be myself, but is that a good idea? (Oh, also my fundamentalist other grandparents don't know I'm not a Christian anymore. But I'm not telling them, because I know they will try to "save" me for sure). Thanks, Carrie

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03-14-2003, 05:54 PM	#2
Abbasux Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: you can find me every weekend at the original Tommyburgers in L.A. Posts: 18	hey Carrie I got kicked out for telling my dad that I dont believe. I hope everything works out for you.

03-14-2003, 05:59 PM	#3
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	Do you need to tell them anything right now? How soon do you expect it to come up? You could just tell them, if they ask, that you don't go to that church anymore. If they keep asking tell them you'd prefer not to talk about it. If they invite you to mass, decline. After that I don't know what to do. But don't rush into telling them anything.

03-14-2003, 06:38 PM	#4
Muad'Dib Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 845	Hi Carrie, My suggestion would be to wait to share with your parents until you feel you can discuss things calmly and clearly. That is good for both you and them: you won't feel like you're losing control, and they won't feel as alienated as they would if it turned into a shouting match. Another thing to be aware of is that your new beliefs will not be the only issue on the table. For my mom, my new lack of belief was not as hard to deal with as her realization that she had to stop thinking of me as a child (I'm her oldest, and it's always hard to let the oldest child go). Your parents will most likely have different issues, but you can bet that whatever those issues are, they will play a role in the discussion. Keep in mind that you may not need to defend your new position intellectually so much as reassure them that you're not rejecting them--though you may need to do both, and it takes a lot of sensitivity to find the right balance. That's why a lot of people here have chosen to come out to their parents through letters or e-mail; writing lets you say calmly what you want to say without being flustered by the pressures of the moment. In the meantime, if you want to delay coming out, you might try to find some reason to avoid mass that is consistent with both your new and old beliefs, so that you can tell the truth and nothing but the truth (just not the whole truth). This is what I did to avoid going to church when I visited my parents; I told them many (though not all) of my objections to the Church of Christ's doctrines and that I didn't think I could be a part of that group any more. (This was based on my knowledge that neither of them was particularly fond of the CoC either--you've got to fit your reasons to your audience.) I don't view this approach as disingenuous at all--it's being partially honest until the time is right to be completely honest. You may want to think about putting something in writing, even if you'd rather tell your parents in person, because writing it down will give you a feel for all that you want to say, and even clarify your thinking about some things. Regardless of what you decide to do, I wish you the best, and hope that you'll keep us posted! -Leighton

03-14-2003, 07:06 PM	#5
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	NO! NO! NO! The possible bads far outweigh the possible goods. Keep it to yourself until you have worked it for yourself how you feel, and until you are old enough to support yourself. You cannot believe how quickly decent Jesus-loving Christians will turn into Nazis if you don't believe as they do. Yet my family does not trust or follow much of the Bible, yet they still believe in Jesus and go to Mass. I don't understand it. People go out of habit, or fear that others will think them bad, or because they derive comfort from the community and ritual even when they do not believe. Vorkosigan

03-15-2003, 09:38 AM	#7
Vicar Philip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cozy little chapel of me own Posts: 1,162	Carrie, Your profile mentioned your husband still being a fundamentalist. Have you and he talked openly about your change in beliefs? If you haven't, I would suggest you do so as soon as possible. I didn't see any mention of children, and I would strongly encourage you to get this religion issue out of the way before any little ones enter the picture. Vicar

03-17-2003, 11:38 AM	#8
Carrie Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 424	Thanks all. Good advice here. As for my mom and dad, they are okay with my change in beliefs. And my husband and I have talked, and he doesn't like it of course, but he's okay. We both know we have to have a talk about children. I think what I might do is just let him teach the kids about religion, and they'll just know that mommy doesn't believe in it. If they want to know about why I doubt, I'll tell them that they'll have to wait until they are old enough so they can look into it for themselves. I don't like the idea of them having to grow up religious, but it won't kill them, and it could save my marriage. Otherwise, if I teach the kids to doubt, their dad would be pissed at me and worried that they'd go to hell. Whereas I would have no such worry if they didn't believe my way. And besides, I don't think they'll necessarily be brainwashed for life. (Lots of kids who are raised religiously end up rebelling against it). And if I tell my kids that I don't believe the Bible, that will at least spark their curiosity and get them to consider that it might not be true. (They'll just have to know that preaching to mommy is not going to be allowed). Also, how many kids WANT to live as Christians? In my church, they'd be taught that they have to go preach to people, and they can't date non-Christians, and can't have pre-marital sex, etc. But they'll know that mom does not believe all of that, and maybe they'll think I have good reason not to. (But I will enforce whatever rules my husbands decides on, and then when they are 18 they can do what they want). Hopefully once they are old enough, they'll know enough about the Bible to see it for what it is; just a man-made book. But if they end up being fundies for life, well that's their choice, and I'll still love them.

03-20-2003, 10:20 AM	#9
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	I'd say not unless it comes up. Unless you're ready and willing to out yourself and face whatever consequences there might be, I'd say wait until you're confronted about it. Ultimately, it should be whenever it's most comfortable for you, if it's within your control, which it might not be. Good luck. I'm facing a similar, albeit less potentially hostile situation.

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