stewbster

well since we cannot gain "exact measures" of many system chaos is always present. only it is usally assumed that small diffrences don't add up. they usally don't but the weather system proves that it depends on the system. now I admit the idea of reverseing entropy was far fetched, but i am just playing around with ideas.

about the law of causality weather proves where that law does break down. there is no ONE cause to any ONE effect. Smaller casual inputs all add up to produce another one effect.. There is no one cause for the rain at a certian time in a cerian place. i think this idea might be worth at least discussing a bit more.

stu

tronvillain

stewbster:
If you are going to label "rain at a certain time in a certain place" as one effect, there is no reason you cannot label the sum of causal inputs leading up to it as one cause. I don't see that there is anything worth discussing, since this effect is apparent to everyone, and can be demonstrated in far simpler systems that the weather.

Mr. Sammi

I strongly believe the 1 cause 1 effect in philosophy exists because of the lack of use of simultaneity and leaving the co-subjects and co-objects out of consideration.

However two or more forces acting on a movable object can be seen overall as 1 summed force acting on 1 movable object(tronvillain). I am unable to envision how choas can affect the law of causality EXCEPT that the changes occuring from cause to effect is only a re-configuration, a change in relative positioning, and no other changes through interaction (as the infinitesimal forces aggregate).

Sammi Na Boodie ()

AdamWho

Chaos is predicated on causality, just as all of physics / science is predicated on causality.

Say that chaos circumvents causality is like saying "algebra circumvents arithmetic".

Of course, if anyone takes chaos (or any other term) out of context then they can make it mean anything they want.

Chaos = sensitivity to initial conditions.

stewbster

Out of my ignorance... How so?

I don't see it as being that simple... since chaos is more a chain of choice by various partiacles.i.e if this particle didn't go this way, this would have happened etc... the infintesimal forces can make or break a weather pattern through the change/ choices it makes.

"sensitivity upon initian conditions" although true seems to me to be an incomplete description of chaos, since all experiments of any type are sensitive upon their initial condtions. since we can't really know what the "intial condition" of our weather system was, what good is chaos theory then... It is an incomplete descripton.

I suppose you could add everything togther in a chain that did cause that one event, and count it as 1 but you can only do that after the fact. so as far as chaos theory is concerned, before and event happens you can't predict the out come for any one place in that weather system as is implied by "summed forces" this is what i mean my cause and effect breaking down. you can't know the effect until it has already happend and you can trace the exact cause, until then you are in the dark with the law of casuality.

stu