Timberline

I've noticed this, too, and not just on internet forums. There's a tendency to scold or hush anyone who utters even a mild criticism of Islam. I've seen accusations of "bigot," "racist," and (most bizarrely and inaccurately) "you're saying Islam is the souce of all evil, and it isn't, so be quiet."

No one's saying that Islam is the only source of sexism. Just as no one who protested South African apartheid was saying that apartheid was the only source of racism. And forgive me for invoking Goodwin's Law, but sometimes the analogy is apt: If you expressed concern in the 1930s about the rising power of Naziism, it wouldn't mean you thought Naziism was the only source of anti-Semetism in the world. Just a particularly nasty strain of anti-Semitism that merited attention.

I think a legitimate case can be made that Islam, as currently practiced, is a particularly nasty strain of sexism. I think the various degrees of "gender segregation" prevalent in Islam help nourish and sustain traditional sexist attitudes. I think the authoritarian, "God said it, that settles it" all-or-nothing mentality (something the religion shares with fundamentalist Christianity) makes it more difficult to challenge or change these sexist attitudes and traditions. Finally, I think the proselytizing nature of Islam (again, something it shares with Christianity) makes the first two factors especially dangerous.

That doesn't mean that reforming Islam would end all discrimination against women in the world, any more than dismantling apartheid ended racism. But it would be a positive first step. The problems in the Islamic world today won't go away if we sweep those problems under the rug. The problems won't go away if we shush everyone who tries to talk about them.

Dr Rick

It's not a good habit to tell others what others think, especially when those others don't think what you think they think.

You'll get much further on these fora posting your own views and responding to what others actually post, and not what you infer they believe

Genghis Pwn

I just read this entire thread and I am literally sick to my stomach. Except for a handful of rational thinkers, this entire threads amounts to people making excuses for the state- and government-sponsored atrocities commited against women in Islam. All anyone says is, "Yes, it's bad, but other stuff is bad too..."

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ISLAM HERE, NOT OTHER RELIGIONS.

That is the most childish blame-passing technique known to man. "Little Johnny, why did you kick that dog?" "Well, Mommy, Kenny kicked a cat, too." Does Jonny's excuse have any merit in defense to the question his mother asked him?????

And then the biggest joke of all -- people actually saying that women are repressed in the United States like they are in Islam. You have got to be fucking kidding me. Have any of you spent time in militant islamic countries? I just got back from Afghanistan, Emirates, and the Nimruz border region of Iran. You have no god-damn idea what you are talking about if you think women are treated badly in America compared to the absolute horor their lives are under Sharia Islamic law. It's not comparable. Not even remotely. Anyone who says so is fucking lost in space. I have seen it first hand; I have heard widows crying through their Burkhas, and it broke my heart. Have any of you apologists been there to hardcore Islamic countries? Do you speak Arabic? Or Farsi? Do you know anything about it?

Instead of making excuse for the horrifying abuse of women by Islam and pointing fingers at other bad things, why not discuss the issue at hand. The name of this thread is " How Women are Treated in Islam (warning graphic photo)" Not "How Many Excuses Can We Make for How Women are Treated in Islam."

Jesus.

Jat

To hear some one would get that impression. There is no other reason to lump Saddam in with the terrorists from the 9/11 attack. Remember, these fundamentalists wanted Saddam dead as well.

Jat

One doesn't need to be a mind reader to know what you're thinking.

Jat

Yes, Islam, the new boogieman.

We're not making excuses for anyone. We blame them all equally for their mistreatment of women.

Dr Rick

That's the flaw in your argument, since Christians aren't throwing acid on to their wives and their relatives, condemning them "equally" makes no sense. Some crimes are worse than others.

Kuu

The trouble is that the title of this thread is 'How Women are Treated in Islam' not how 'Women are Treated Under Militant Islam' - there is a significant difference here. We are not making excuses for the all of Islam, especially not making excuses for those countries were the abuse is rife, but we have the right to point out the following

1) Not all Islamic men are abusive
2) Not all Islamic women are abused
3) Not all Islamic countries have laws that allow such abuse
4) Other women are as abused as those abused in Islamic countries - abuse is not confined to Islam.


A woman living in fear of her life, being beaten, being imprisoned in a house, being burnt with cigarettes - is tragic wherever she is. Do you think that the pain of abused women elsewhere is less severe? I am not talking about women as a whole - I am talking about the pain of each individual abused woman. My 'husband's law' was as severe as Sharia law. In the 18 years since he left I have never got over the abuse I received. You are belittling what happened to me by saying what I was suffering was nothing compared to what a woman is made to suffer when she wears a Burkha. The abuse I received was comparable to what any woman in Afghanistan endured. I haven't even mentioned the worse things that happen to me.

Would my tears back then, or the tears I somethimes cry now, not also break your heart?

It seems to me you only feel sorry for women if they are Islamic?

No I haven't been to hardcore Islamic countries but then you weren't in my house when my husband stuck a gun at my baby's head and told me to be a dog or he would shoot my son. I had to run around on my hands and knees barking, and then I had to be a cow.

You weren't in my house when my husband had a gun at my head and I wet myself. He made me take my panties off and then rubbed my nose in them. Or when he sexually assaulted me with a gun.


In your own words such treatment is uncomparable to the abuse most Islamic women receive. I think most sane people would disagree with that.

Dr Rick

That's not what he said.

The level of abuse tolerated by most Islamic populations is greater than that tolerated by most Christians.

In the the Western Hemisphere, a man would go to jail a long time for throwing acid on a woman and her sister, but that's not the case in many parts of Africa and the Middle East.

Your personal trauma is horrible, but your ex could go to jail for it here.

Gurdur

Dear me !

But I thought you said you were in Spain ?

You do get around quickly, don't you ?
But do you have photos of that ?