FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB Philosophical Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 05:55 AM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-11-2002, 06:56 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The land of chain smoking, bible thumping, holy ro
Posts: 1,248
Question Do all wars involve God (s) and religion? So far, yes they do

Quote:
Originally posted by David Payne:
<strong>This quote from Non Sequitur by Wiley: The picture: Two cave men, one is drawing a picture of one man clubbing another one on the wall. His companion says; No no no… first we invent religion to justify our actions, THEN we invent war!
A fitting end to this thread, Bob willing.

<a href="http://www.non-sequitur.com/index.php3?inday=7&inyear=2002&inmonth=9" target="_blank">See comic here</a>

David</strong>
This is from the last post on my thread in EoG that asked if God was the biggest mass murderer of all time. I wonder if Wiley wasn't on to something here, as I can't think of one war that didn't have God/Religion as either the prime justification, or as a major secondary justification. As a Vietnam vet, (USMC) I remember getting it drilled into us that we were going to go kill the Godless commies for mommy. So can anyone here make a case for a war that didn't involve God(s)/Religion?

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: David Payne ]

[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: David Payne ]</p>
David M. Payne is offline  
Old 09-11-2002, 07:33 PM   #2
Amos
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

I have no problem with it if you leave God out of it and just have religion as the cause of war for either the right reason or the wrong reason (I am no pacifist.

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>
 
Old 09-12-2002, 06:20 AM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Southwest USA
Posts: 4,093
Post

If you say that god is a motivator for getting people to fight in a particular war, I would agree, however, I think very few wars are fought because of religion. Wars are generally fought because of real estate.
Tristan Scott is offline  
Old 09-12-2002, 06:36 AM   #4
atheist_in_foxhole
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

 
Old 09-12-2002, 12:17 PM   #5
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NW Florida, USA
Posts: 1,279
Post

US Civil War?
ManM is offline  
Old 09-12-2002, 03:20 PM   #6
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer
Posts: 5,276
Post

Revolutionary war?
Starboy is offline  
Old 09-12-2002, 03:49 PM   #7
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The land of chain smoking, bible thumping, holy ro
Posts: 1,248
Wink

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan Scott:
<strong>If you say that god is a motivator for getting people to fight in a particular war, I would agree, however, I think very few wars are fought because of religion. Wars are generally fought because of real estate.</strong>
Yes, economic, political, cultural, ethnic and social reasons among other factors, are amongst the actual reasons that most wars are fought, but they are usually not the reason given for the wars. The reasons used to justify this activity are usually good (us) vs. bad (them) and God/religion is used to say that our side (pick a side here) is the side of good. If we can eliminate the smoke screen of God/religion in warfare, we can at least have honest wars, and perhaps even no wars at all in the end.

Judging by what happened on 9/11 and all the wars going on right now that are religious in nature, that day will be a long time coming though I fear. Right now it looks like all the wars going on are very religious in nature, and God/religion is being used as the prime reason for the wars, not as just the motivational reason. This is a bad sign for the future I believe.

Quote:
Originally posted by ManM:
<strong>US Civil War?</strong>
Yes, I thought it might be one of the few too, but if you study religious history a little you find that the northern troops and the southern troops both used their own various religions and concept of God to say the other side was the bad guy. Realy one must admit that God is very handy in the justification for war biz, he never corrects anyone for using him in the propagation of war. Of course as a myth, he can't correct anyone anyway, but that is another subject.

Quote:
Originally posted by atheist_in_foxhole:
<strong></strong>

Yes, AF (atheist_in_foxhole ) cartoons and fiction can often say things very eloquently that would not get noticed if made as plain statements. I like this one too, thanks for the contribution.

David
David M. Payne is offline  
Old 09-12-2002, 04:04 PM   #8
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by ManM:
<strong>US Civil War?</strong>
You can find a lot of talk about how the South was fighting to protect true Christianity, with its approval of slavery, from those northern Unitarians. I don't think this explains the Civil War, but it does show how war mongers tend to use religion to justify whatever they do.
Toto is offline  
Old 09-14-2002, 09:51 AM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The land of chain smoking, bible thumping, holy ro
Posts: 1,248
Wink

So far it looks like the case can be made that God (S) and religion are an integral part of the war biz, as either the prime reason for the war, (See 9/11 and the Islamic fundies desire to make us decadent westerners "submit" to Islam and Allah for the latest example of God/religion being the prime motivation for the war.) Or God and religion is used as a moral justification for pursuing the underlying reasons for war, economic, political, social and ethnic etc grievances. The war in the Balkans is a good example of this last point, though I think religious conflict may runs neck and neck with the other reasons for that war. So it appears that God/religion is the prime motivator (the spark) for war these days, with many underlying factors serving as the fuel for the conflicts. Now if we could just eliminate the spark, perhaps we could solve the fuel problems that present so much peril to us all.

David
David M. Payne is offline  
Old 09-14-2002, 12:16 PM   #10
DMB
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

I've posted this before, but I think it sums it up. It was written by J.C.Squire at the beginning of WW1:
Quote:
God heard the embattled nations sing and shout
"Gott strafe England!" and "God save the King!"
"God this, God that and God the other thing."
"Good God!", said God, "I've got my work cut out!"
 
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:18 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.