yguy

From the POV of a determinedly selfish person, of course. It's a hindrance to his pleasure-seeking.

From your POV, an obvious possibility. What of it?

You lost me.

Unfortunately, as I keep reminding you bozos, they are inevitably encountered at some point in the logic chain.

In the technical sense that it can do things I can't do, yes. God can't do evil. I can. If that makes me somehow superior to him, the yardstick by which one comes to such a conclusion is obviously warped, to say the least.

I have. Pray be specific.

So if an 8 year old kid drives the family car and crashes it because it looks easy to him, is the parent is at fault for having failed to convey to him that it's not as easy as it looks? No, because there is no way to do that to someone who has convinced himself he knows better than the boss.

Not necessarily. There is, after all, a God of this world, satan, who has some power over it except God intervene - which He only does to the extent that His children desire it.

kctan

This is actually derived from your POV where you state that as long as there's no conscience pang, anything you do is considered right. I'm just pointing out to you that having such a view is as good as having no conscience because a person as stated above by you could have conscience while at the same time felt nothing because he/she always deem his/hers action is always right.

Nothing much except that the pharisees you're satanizing can also satanize you in return which means neither side can claim they are actually serving with god's will.

Some people are naturally egoistic. They always have this feeling of superiority over others. This is usually flaunt out openly while for some their superiority is being recognised by others yet they don't feel themselves to be superior at all. Usually we termed the former as egoistical while the latter as humble.

If you're the one doing the assertions, you've got to provide the evidence & prove. Since you're asserting that there's a creator, pray show us the creator. This is only logic at work, if you ain't familiar with how a logical debate is supposed to be carried out, I can provide the neccessary links.

Prove that god can't do evil first. Otherwise it's another baseless assertion. We are capable of more humanity & morality then your god so in such a scenario, we are indeed superior then god. Anyway, until you define what you mean by 'evil' no conclusion can be drawn muchless talk about it being warped.

You sure showed otherwise. Remember that A&E needs to partake of the tree of knowledge of good & evil before they start realising things of morality ?

So you will punish your 8 year old kid by throwing him/her out of the house & not letting him/her back in again until you turn up one fine day to be brutally sacrificed by him/her as appeasement to you ? Anyway, an eight old kid is old enough to start conceptualising & knowing the difference between perceived good & evil. As a matter of fact, my 3 year old is already beginning to conceptualize & know when she is being 'bad'. As to A&E, they only begin to know such concepts after eating the so called forbidden fruit.

So are you saying that all natural disasters are a work of satan ? God doesn't seems to be very powerful at all & it's morality & humanity doesn't seems to be very much at all too. I don't see this god of your's intervening so far except in the OT when it did genocides, kills babies, stone women, order wanton slaughter etc... Come to think of it, is your god actually satan ?

This god of your's purposely created you with such frailties & to add insult to injuries let loose a monster to cause continous havoc so that your demise would be as untimely as possible so that you could either end up burning in a hell this god of your's created eternally or end up in heaven carrying this god's balls for eternity. Nice god you have there. Luckily I don't subscribe to your godly club.

yguy

The difference being, of course, that to the person with no conscience, anything they did would feel right, whereas to the person WITH a conscience, everything they did would BE right.

On the contrary, we both can claim it. One or both of us would be lying.

And this relates to the discussion how?

I don't have to do any such thing.

On a BB? Don't be an idiot. Show me an electron first.

I don't give a damn "how a logical debate is supposed to be carried out." If you don't wanna play it the way I'm willing to play it, get lost.

I'm not nearly dumb enough to go for such putrid bait.

Evil is that which tempts us away from our connection with the Creator.

Had they not partaken of it, they wouldn't have needed any morality - which is essentially the law - any more than an apple tree needs to be taught how to bear apples. Had Adam not fallen, he'd have had riches that would have made Solomon look like trailer trash.

This, of course, is a transparent attempt to divert us away from the implied question of God's culpability. The point is, it wasn't God's fault.

Nope. Just some. Whether it's 1% or 99% or anything in between, I don't know.

From your POV, maybe he is.

kctan

Should be the other way round. No conscience, everything is right. Got conscience, everything feels right. Conscience afterall is a feeling.

Not really. Both of us could be wrong, both of us could be right & either of us could be right plus the variant on half truths. So it's really more options then you can think of.

Just pointing out something to you which you seems unaware of.

Of course you don't have to. Since you're just blowing empty air anyway.

Follow the link.

Picture of Electrons

Now it's your turn.

You're the one who talks about logic first. So don't blame me if you're illogical.

You're already hooked by replying to my posts. No baits needed.

Including the creator itself right ? Want me to point to the verse in question ? The bible is very handy when it comes to questioning such ambiguous answers.


How to laid down a law when the people the law's for don't even understand the concept of obeying & disobeying ? That's why you can't prosecute babies.

The point is god is fully responsible for the fall. It allow in the serpent, it planted the tree there, it laid down a rule when it knew that those 2 don't know what the fish is a 'rule'.

If you leave your 1 year old near a pot of boiling water then tell the baby not to go near the water but the baby ended up getting burnt, who's fault is it ?

Of course since the 'picture' I painted for you is what the bible is conveying, you're just trying to brush away the point. Anyway, I can't force you to reply right ?

So the other times is caused by your god right ? Don't say don't know, very dangerous you know especially involving 'evil'.

Not my POV, all picked out from your's by having this little tete-a-tete with you.

yguy

Ahh, now I see your problem.

conscience

\Con"science\, n. [F. conscience, fr. L. conscientia, fr. consciens, p. pr. of conscire to know, to be conscious; con- + scire to know. See Science.] 1. Knowledge of one's own thoughts or actions; consciousness. [Obs.]

Conscience is a knowing, not a feeling.

I didn't ask for a PICTURE of an electron, I asked you to show me one.

Don't kid yerself, cowboy.

Peddle it to a Bible literalist, lightweight.

Adam understood the concept of obedience. He wanted to understand the concept of disobedience too, and he got what he deserved.

I'm quite aware that's what you think. It's a lie.

It's my fault for not taking into account the kid's level of understanding. God took Adam's level of understanding into account. He was not an infant. He knew what "No" meant. That's all he needed.

Go to the devil.

kctan

It's a feeling. A knowledge of one's own thoughts or actions. That's a feeling as far as I'm concern.

A picture paints a thousand words. Anyway, how about investing in a scanning electron microscope ? I could show you one then. How about your god ? I can really show you an electron but can you show me a real live in the flesh god ?

Sorry ain't no cowboy. More like a fisherman.

Ahh a non fundie. My favorite. So no basis for your faith ?

Where in the bible did it says that Adam knows the concept of obedience ? Chapter & verse pls.

Want me to quote from the bible ? My knowledge of genesis seems to be better then yours.

Adam knew what 'no' means ? If he knew, could he have eaten from the tree ? Read your genesis properly first before replying, I can't stand xians wannbe who lack the proper knowledge of their religion.

Ahh but I don't believe in one. Could you prove to me one really exist ?

Peter Kirby

That would be the ultimate moral subjectivism. Morality is not contingent upon the opinions of many people, but merely the say-so and/or character of one individual: Jehovah.

best,
Peter Kirby

Nowhere357

Okay.

I'm mugged by a violent gang. They are wrong to mug people, I am in the right as I try to defend myself.

So clearly I will gain might and win the fight. Right?

Every time your view displays weakness, yguy, you practice your well-honed art of diversion.

Right does not make might. But the xian god practices might makes right. Now, evade away.

yguy

So what's the problem?

yguy

Not necessarily, because you are only technically correct. You don't necessarily have what Christ had when He drove the moneychangers out of the temple. If you have that, you will win even if you lose, because those muggers will never be able to forget they murdered a noble soul.

But yes, right does make might. That's how so few Jews were able to fend off so many Nazi soldiers in the Warsaw ghetto uprising, how Israel survives to this day, though surrounded by murderous enemies, and how Reagan was able to tell Gorbachev to "tear down this wall", and see it happen.