Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Phanes · 02-09-2003, 07:55 PM

Yugh. Classic argument from "That sure was lucky for me!"

Too bad about all those other people though...

JEST2ASK · 02-09-2003, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mary and Mike
__________________________________________________ _
Originally posted by JEST2ASK
Any particular parts you find well written and why?
Also is there a particular version (KJV - NIV etc) that appeals to you?

I find some interesting poetry in the O.T. but apart from 1-Corithians 13 there is not much in the N.T. that IMO is good writting.
(In the English translations I have read .... sorry I am not a multi-lingual person).
__________________________________________________ __

Maybe in the 10 commandents....Don't kill...I think that is just morally wrong anyways. I have only read KJV.

Mary

Exodus 20 is ok in general terms but I like Leviticus 18 and the Laws (commandments - statues) concernig sexual morality. Some parts always made me think this guys had some real issues. It is sort of like those real legal disclaimers on products that make you go ... now what kind of a idiot doesn't know using a hair-dryer while taking a bath is a bad idea?

Fiach · 02-09-2003, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mary and Mike
Hello everyone. I have been reading the boards for a few days now, it's been very enjoyable. My husband and myself are both atheists (Or for more definition we don't believe that there are any gods.)

A few years ago I was in a philosophy class and towards the end of the class we talked about the existance of god. There was about 25 of us in the classroom and only 2 of us were atheists. One time I had this woman who sat next to be who said she believed in god because of an incident that had happened, her ex had held a gun to her head and discharged it, but the gun got jammed or something and it didn't fire. She said she just knew that god had saved her. My belief was that she was just lucky and the gun had a mechanical failure. Out side of class she told me that someday, "I would find god." I wondered how I would find someone that I don't believe exsists.

I always see people who believe say that they believe because of the bible, and they always seem to quote from the bible to support that belief and faith, but the don't provide any other solid proof. That always is a sore spot with me since I believe that the bible was a well written book, but still doesn't prove that there is some all powerful being somewhere.

People believe in God for various psychological reasons. These include a desire for a father-substitute protector in the sky, the need for an explanation of physical phenomena which is yet unexplained or in which the science is above the level of the person to understand, the desire for immortality.

A more interesting question is why you and I do not believe despite being raised in christian cultures. I think it is in brain hard wiring. Most people are hard wired to be gullible, accept ideas on authority without proof, and adopt religion. Others are hard wired to be sceptical, critical of assumptions, rational thinkers, and have difficulty accepting a god hypothesis totally lacking in evidence.

Why are Christians Christians and Muslims Muslims? They have the religious hard wiring, and the colour of their religion is that of their culture. Muslim parents in Iran almost never have children that happen to be Christian. Christian Fundies in Alabama as parents almost never happen to have Muslim children. (black Muslims being a different set up, they reject Christianity as their slave religion.)

But Atheists and agnostics have an internal cerebral inhibition from accepting irrational concepts, including Religion, UFOs, Bigfoot, Nessie, Parapsychology, homeopathic medicine, other alternative medicine.

I disagree that theists believe because of the Bible. I doubt that the Bible has converted anyone. It is not well written. It is full of contradictions and errors, moral depravity, and injustice. A person who is converted by the bible is disengenuous. He/she believed or wanted to believe before doing their bible reading. Then they just cafeteria style picked verses that reinforced their views.

Most Atheists read the Bible for amusement and debate, and tend to notice all of the irrational rubbish and contradictions. In reverse of the claim, the Bible in atheists reinforces their atheism at least in reference to the Christian god(s).

Fiach

JEST2ASK · 02-09-2003, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fiach

I disagree that theists believe because of the Bible. I doubt that the Bible has converted anyone. It is not well written. It is full of contradictions and errors, moral depravity, and injustice. A person who is converted by the bible is disengenuous. He/she believed or wanted to believe before doing their bible reading. Then they just cafeteria style picked verses that reinforced their views.

I would even go one step further Most Christians believe in **Spite** of the bible. There seems to be more emotional factors involved. IMO it takes a specific mind-set to see the Bible as proof of God.

Quote:

Most Atheists read the Bible for amusement and debate, and tend to notice all of the irrational rubbish and contradictions. In reverse of the claim, the Bible in atheists reinforces their atheism at least in reference to the Christian god(s).

Fiach

Since I have become agnostic I find myself studying the Bible much more deeply (in terms of underlaying factors - influence of politics - cultures - social changes etc) trying to find out more about the truth behind the various writtings. I am often quite surprised how little believers know about the real nature of how it was collected / canonized (instaed of just what is contained within it's pages). I feel that belief in some regards inhibits real study.

Jobar · 02-09-2003, 09:10 PM

Welcome, M&M. (I just bet you were both waiting for that one, weren't you?)

This forum, EoG, is normally for the more philosophical discussions pro or con, about the non-existence, or existence and possible attributes, of God. I think this post would be better in our General Religion Discussions forum; but I won't move it yet, in case you do have some more specific commentary on the forum topic. Explore a bit, read some of our ongoing conversation threads, and you'll soon get the hang of deciding where to best put your posts.

I hope you two enjoy II as much as I do.

Boro Nut · 02-10-2003, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mary and Mike
Hello everyone. I have been reading the boards for a few days now, it's been very enjoyable. My husband and myself are both atheists (Or for more definition we don't believe that there are any gods.)

I think you have gone a bit astray with your search engine. Atheists collect stamps. You want Philatelists. I wondered why all the threads about penny blacks get sidetracked.

Boro Nut

wordsmyth · 02-10-2003, 07:09 AM

Welcome to II Mary and Mike!

Quote:

Originally posted by Mary and Mike
I always see people who believe say that they believe because of the bible, and they always seem to quote from the bible to support that belief and faith, but the don't provide any other solid proof.

A majority of the xians I have debated with in the past don't know the "wholly babble" half as well as they profess to. Those that are well versed in the "wholly babble" often go to great lengths to posit a very strained interpretation in an attempt to harmonize their personal beliefs with what is actually written. A majority of the xians that post to the II would seem to be the latter.

Mary and Mike · 02-10-2003, 10:26 AM

__________________________________________________ _
Originally posted by Jobar
Welcome, M&M. (I just bet you were both waiting for that one, weren't you?)

This forum, EoG, is normally for the more philosophical discussions pro or con, about the non-existence, or existence and possible attributes, of God. I think this post would be better in our General Religion Discussions forum; but I won't move it yet, in case you do have some more specific commentary on the forum topic. Explore a bit, read some of our ongoing conversation threads, and you'll soon get the hang of deciding where to best put your posts.

I hope you two enjoy II as much as I do.

__________________________________________________ __

Yeah, I was waiting, I tend to call us that all the time.

Thanks for the leeway on posting here, if you would like to move by all means feel free too. I was kinda feeling my way around the boards and wasn't 100% were to put posts yet.

Am enjoying the boards very much!

Mary

Clutch · 02-10-2003, 10:45 AM

Well, you don't hear about the people who did get their heads blown off complaining that God wasn't on the job, do you? See? Right?

TomboyMom · 02-12-2003, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JTVrocher
I've always thought that kind of thinking was really sick. You
know...

"Da rest of da trailr park was wiped out but me n Mama
an da dogs made it out ok ah guess. Sur is bad bout all them
otha people but Ah'm guessn God was a lookin out fer us."

Why doesn't God watch out for eveybody

JT

And why are so many Christians against gun control? 'seems
there'd be at least one good Christian woman who would be
all for it.

I read a great news story once about a tornado in a southern state that literally passed over a bar and its patrons and struck a church full of people having a prayer meeting. Would that disprove the existence of God for people who think this way? [not, these people don't really think.]

Rene

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02-09-2003, 07:55 PM	#11
Phanes Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 127	Yugh. Classic argument from "That sure was lucky for me!" Too bad about all those other people though...

02-09-2003, 09:10 PM	#15
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Welcome, M&M. (I just bet you were both waiting for that one, weren't you?) This forum, EoG, is normally for the more philosophical discussions pro or con, about the non-existence, or existence and possible attributes, of God. I think this post would be better in our General Religion Discussions forum; but I won't move it yet, in case you do have some more specific commentary on the forum topic. Explore a bit, read some of our ongoing conversation threads, and you'll soon get the hang of deciding where to best put your posts. I hope you two enjoy II as much as I do.

02-10-2003, 10:26 AM	#18
Mary and Mike Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: In reality Posts: 21	__________________________________________________ _ Originally posted by Jobar Welcome, M&M. (I just bet you were both waiting for that one, weren't you?) This forum, EoG, is normally for the more philosophical discussions pro or con, about the non-existence, or existence and possible attributes, of God. I think this post would be better in our General Religion Discussions forum; but I won't move it yet, in case you do have some more specific commentary on the forum topic. Explore a bit, read some of our ongoing conversation threads, and you'll soon get the hang of deciding where to best put your posts. I hope you two enjoy II as much as I do. __________________________________________________ __ Yeah, I was waiting, I tend to call us that all the time. Thanks for the leeway on posting here, if you would like to move by all means feel free too. I was kinda feeling my way around the boards and wasn't 100% were to put posts yet. Am enjoying the boards very much! Mary

02-10-2003, 10:45 AM	#19
Clutch Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 3,751	Well, you don't hear about the people who did get their heads blown off complaining that God wasn't on the job, do you? See? Right?

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