Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MrDarwin · 08-02-2002, 04:52 AM

Sorry, I haven't had much time for discussion lately, but I do try to keep up with the news so here's an interesting article:

<a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/08/020802075138.htm" target="_blank">Retroviruses Shows That Human-Specific Variety Developed When Humans, Chimps Diverged</a>

08-02-2002, 05:38 AM

That's a very interesting article, MrD. I just wish, however, that when people write this sort of thing up they would be a bit tighter with their language:

Quote:

retroviral elements may actually be implicated in the leap from chimpanzees to humans.

This suggests that we evolved from chimps instead of that we and chimps co-evolved from a common ancestor.

MrDarwin · 08-02-2002, 05:56 AM

I'm inclined to forgive them because earlier in the same article they say, "at the same time humans and chimps are believed to have diverged from a common ancestor" and "human-specific retroviruses emerged at the same time other researchers believe humans and chimps diverged".

Dr.GH · 08-02-2002, 06:31 AM

Very interesting. Thanks for the link.

tgamble · 08-04-2002, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDarwin:
<strong>"Scientists in the past decade have discovered that remnants of ancient germ line infections called human endogenous retroviruses make up a substantial part of the human genome. Once thought to be merely "junk" DNA and inactive, many of these elements, in fact, perform functions in human cells."
</strong>

The creationists are gonna love this. "The evilutionists liars are wrong again! They claimed the appendix was useless and they were wrong! Now it's shown that they were wrong about Junk DNA having no fuction!"

Since they do have a fuction does this weaken the case from molecular genetics? "Can "errors" in modern species be used as evidence of "copying" from ancient ancestors? In fact, the answer to this question appears to be "yes," since recent molecular genetics investigations have uncovered some examples of the same "errors" present in the genetic material of humans and apes. To understand these findings it is necessary to know a little about DNA, the chemical molecule in which genetic information is stored." <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/molgen/" target="_blank">http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/molgen/</a> If they do, in fact, have a fuction, are they still errors?

[ August 04, 2002: Message edited by: tgamble ]

{edited to fix link - scigirl}

[ August 04, 2002: Message edited by: scigirl ]</p>

three4jump · 08-04-2002, 09:42 AM

I have a question for one of you who knows more about this stuff than I do: Did these viruses come from inside the body, born from mutations of our own genes, or did they come from outside the body and incorporate themselves into the genes? Or both?

ps418 · 08-04-2002, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Did these viruses come from inside the body, born from mutations of our own genes, or did they come from outside the body and incorporate themselves into the genes?

The latter. Check out the section on endogenous retroviri in <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/molgen/" target="_blank">this article.</a>

three4jump · 08-04-2002, 10:13 AM

thanks for the link.

Dr.GH · 08-04-2002, 10:38 AM

I have been long impressed with <a href="http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/96/18/10254#Top" target="_blank">this Johnson&Coffin paper on EHRVs</a>.

I haven't yet taken the time to study this new idea of retroviruses promoting differentiation at taxa higher than bacteria. Lateral transfer in multicellular organisms? Big idea if it is real, but, homerun hitters also strike out at lot (other than Bonds that is).

lpetrich · 08-04-2002, 01:16 PM

Does anyone have any clue about the origin of viruses in general? Or are most viruses too stripped-down to give any clear clues about their origins?

And what I mean by origin is which non-virus ancestors that viruses are descended from.

[ August 04, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

08-02-2002, 04:52 AM	#1
MrDarwin Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4,140	Retroviruses Shows That Human-Specific Variety Developed When Humans, Chimps Diverged Sorry, I haven't had much time for discussion lately, but I do try to keep up with the news so here's an interesting article: <a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/08/020802075138.htm" target="_blank">Retroviruses Shows That Human-Specific Variety Developed When Humans, Chimps Diverged</a>

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08-02-2002, 05:56 AM	#3
MrDarwin Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4,140	I'm inclined to forgive them because earlier in the same article they say, "at the same time humans and chimps are believed to have diverged from a common ancestor" and "human-specific retroviruses emerged at the same time other researchers believe humans and chimps diverged".

08-02-2002, 06:31 AM	#4
Dr.GH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Point, Ca, USA Posts: 2,115	Very interesting. Thanks for the link.

08-04-2002, 09:42 AM	#6
three4jump Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Useless Bay Posts: 1,434	I have a question for one of you who knows more about this stuff than I do: Did these viruses come from inside the body, born from mutations of our own genes, or did they come from outside the body and incorporate themselves into the genes? Or both?

08-04-2002, 10:13 AM	#8
three4jump Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Useless Bay Posts: 1,434	thanks for the link.

08-04-2002, 10:38 AM	#9
Dr.GH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Point, Ca, USA Posts: 2,115	I have been long impressed with <a href="http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/96/18/10254#Top" target="_blank">this Johnson&Coffin paper on EHRVs</a>. I haven't yet taken the time to study this new idea of retroviruses promoting differentiation at taxa higher than bacteria. Lateral transfer in multicellular organisms? Big idea if it is real, but, homerun hitters also strike out at lot (other than Bonds that is).

08-04-2002, 01:16 PM	#10
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Does anyone have any clue about the origin of viruses in general? Or are most viruses too stripped-down to give any clear clues about their origins? And what I mean by origin is which non-virus ancestors that viruses are descended from. [ August 04, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

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