Freethought & Rationalism Archive

plool · 01-09-2002, 07:57 PM

Stumbled upon an interesting article,

<a href="http://www.scientificamerican.com/2002/0102issue/0102skeptic.html" target="_blank">http://www.scientificamerican.com/2002/0102issue/0102skeptic.html</a>

Regarding Arthur C. Clarkes phrase,

Quote:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

, and how it relates to the possible existence of extra terrestrial intelligence.

A snippet from the article:

Quote:

Consider that biological evolution operates at a snail's pace compared with technological evolution (the former is Darwinian and requires generations of differential reproductive success; the latter is Lamarckian and can be accomplished within a single generation). Then, too, the cosmos is very big and very empty. Voyager 1, our most distant spacecraft, hurtling along at more than 38,000 miles per hour, will not reach the distance of even our sun's nearest neighbor, the Alpha Centauri system (which it is not headed toward), for more than 75,000 years.

Ergo, the probability that an ETI only slightly more advanced than we are will make contact is virtually nil. If we ever do find an ETI, it will be as though a million-year-old Homo erectus were dropped into the 21st century, given a computer and cell phone and instructed to communicate with us. The ETI would be to us as we would be to this early hominid--godlike.

Could this be our new religion one day?

On a side-note. I'd be curious as to the opinion of some of the posters on this forum regarding the possibility of "alien" life besides that of our own here on Earth.

I'm generally skeptical about many things, but is it more feasible to believe in the possible existence of aliens than that of an omniscient and all-powerful deity?

Megatron · 01-10-2002, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by plool:
Stumbled upon an interesting article,

<a href="http://www.scientificamerican.com/2002/0102issue/0102skeptic.html" target="_blank">http://www.scientificamerican.com/2002/0102issue/0102skeptic.html</a>

Regarding Arthur C. Clarkes phrase,

(quote and snippet read, but no need to repost it here...)

Could this be our new religion one day?

Sounds like religion now, only a bit more probable than an ever-involved omniscient/omnipotent theist god.

Quote:

On a side-note. I'd be curious as to the opinion of some of the posters on this forum regarding the possibility of "alien" life besides that of our own here on Earth.

I believe, with little doubt, that it exists somewhere but honestly, making any contact with it is unfathomably improbable. After all, it could be anywhere and all we've managed to examine yet (in detail) is our own solar system.

Quote:

I'm generally skeptical about many things, but is it more feasible to believe in the possible existence of aliens than that of an omniscient and all-powerful deity?

I think so. Zillions of worlds and we are the only sentients? Doubtful.

Almost as doubtful, in fact, as a theist god.

[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: Archangel ]

plool · 01-10-2002, 06:03 PM

It seems like the link no longer works.

Here is google's cache of the page:

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:ZTZi-ydVuh8C:www.sciam.com/2002/0102issue/0102skeptic.html+&hl=en" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:ZTZi-ydVuh8C:www.sciam.com/2002/0102issue/0102skeptic.h tml+&hl=en</a>

Marduk · 01-12-2002, 07:23 AM

I like to consider the possibility that this has already happened, The origin of religion and the worship of all things from above, a visit from ETI 10,000 years ago. The �gods� of the Bronze age. They found a planet full of primitive hominids living as hunter gatherers (the Garden of Eden) they conducted genetic experiments and all of a sudden Homosapiens arise building civilization with the knowledge they received from the ETI (snake) The Bible a story of the creation of Homosapiens, i.e. who did Cain marry? One of the ordinary naturally evolved primitives. �and the sons of the gods came into the daughters of man, and the Nephilim were on the Earth in tose days, and afterward� Gen. 6
Maybe the ETI never left Earth, came here because their planet was dying, interbred with early hominids, taught them civilization as much as they could before dying off, the result Bronze Age Bibles of many sorts speaking of Angels and Gods with flaming chariots etc.

GunnerJ · 01-12-2002, 09:04 AM

Marduk- That idea has great appeal. But how do creatures evolved on an entirely different world, with an entirely different environment, and possibly radically different biochemestry, interbreed with early hominids? And how is it that we still retain 98% of our genome from Earth life?

Theli · 01-12-2002, 09:42 AM

"all we've managed to examine yet (in detail) is our own solar system."
The solar system has NOT been examined in details. There are a few places in the solarsystem wich could support life. Like under the ice of Europa. Some time in about 20 years they plan to send a spaceprobe (I don't know if that's the correct word) to drill a hole in the ice and take samples as well as photos and scans.
I don't think our first encounter with an extraterrestial being will be little green aliens landing on earth with their UFO's.

"I like to consider the possibility that this has already happened, The origin of religion and the worship of all things from above, a visit from ETI 10,000 years ago."
Wasn't it the summerian's that had carved into stone something that looked much like a model of the solarsystem? It even had some details on the planets wich they couldn't possibly have known. They also formed the skulls of their newborn babies to resemble some visitors from the sky that had been there. They had carved images into old stonewalls wich showed flying creatures coming from the sky down to earth. Really makes you think...

That ETI's could come here, I don't think we can 100% rule out. If a speices scientific knowledge has evolved to the point that they have superior knowledge of the universe's construcion and also of time's construcion they might find a way break such limits as the speed of light.

Marduk · 01-14-2002, 09:17 AM

"Marduk- That idea has great appeal. But how do creatures evolved on an entirely different world, with an
entirely different environment, and possibly radically different biochemestry, interbreed with early hominids?
And how is it that we still retain 98% of our genome from Earth life? "

One possibility is that there was no breeding, just some creative gene splicing to make the hominids smarter, the other is that when life happens anywhere it happens just like on Earth and humanlike creatures abound (Star Trek) If the theory that organic compounds came to Earth billions of years ago on comets is true, then it's possible life, when it occurs, is just like life here.

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01-10-2002, 06:03 PM	#3
plool Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Everett Posts: 5	It seems like the link no longer works. Here is google's cache of the page: <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:ZTZi-ydVuh8C:www.sciam.com/2002/0102issue/0102skeptic.html+&hl=en" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:ZTZi-ydVuh8C:www.sciam.com/2002/0102issue/0102skeptic.h tml+&hl=en</a>

01-12-2002, 07:23 AM	#4
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	I like to consider the possibility that this has already happened, The origin of religion and the worship of all things from above, a visit from ETI 10,000 years ago. The �gods� of the Bronze age. They found a planet full of primitive hominids living as hunter gatherers (the Garden of Eden) they conducted genetic experiments and all of a sudden Homosapiens arise building civilization with the knowledge they received from the ETI (snake) The Bible a story of the creation of Homosapiens, i.e. who did Cain marry? One of the ordinary naturally evolved primitives. �and the sons of the gods came into the daughters of man, and the Nephilim were on the Earth in tose days, and afterward� Gen. 6 Maybe the ETI never left Earth, came here because their planet was dying, interbred with early hominids, taught them civilization as much as they could before dying off, the result Bronze Age Bibles of many sorts speaking of Angels and Gods with flaming chariots etc.

01-12-2002, 09:04 AM	#5
GunnerJ Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: a place where i can list whatever location i want Posts: 4,871	Marduk- That idea has great appeal. But how do creatures evolved on an entirely different world, with an entirely different environment, and possibly radically different biochemestry, interbreed with early hominids? And how is it that we still retain 98% of our genome from Earth life?

01-12-2002, 09:42 AM	#6
Theli Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,567	"all we've managed to examine yet (in detail) is our own solar system." The solar system has NOT been examined in details. There are a few places in the solarsystem wich could support life. Like under the ice of Europa. Some time in about 20 years they plan to send a spaceprobe (I don't know if that's the correct word) to drill a hole in the ice and take samples as well as photos and scans. I don't think our first encounter with an extraterrestial being will be little green aliens landing on earth with their UFO's. "I like to consider the possibility that this has already happened, The origin of religion and the worship of all things from above, a visit from ETI 10,000 years ago." Wasn't it the summerian's that had carved into stone something that looked much like a model of the solarsystem? It even had some details on the planets wich they couldn't possibly have known. They also formed the skulls of their newborn babies to resemble some visitors from the sky that had been there. They had carved images into old stonewalls wich showed flying creatures coming from the sky down to earth. Really makes you think... That ETI's could come here, I don't think we can 100% rule out. If a speices scientific knowledge has evolved to the point that they have superior knowledge of the universe's construcion and also of time's construcion they might find a way break such limits as the speed of light.

01-14-2002, 09:17 AM	#7
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	"Marduk- That idea has great appeal. But how do creatures evolved on an entirely different world, with an entirely different environment, and possibly radically different biochemestry, interbreed with early hominids? And how is it that we still retain 98% of our genome from Earth life? " One possibility is that there was no breeding, just some creative gene splicing to make the hominids smarter, the other is that when life happens anywhere it happens just like on Earth and humanlike creatures abound (Star Trek) If the theory that organic compounds came to Earth billions of years ago on comets is true, then it's possible life, when it occurs, is just like life here.

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