the tick

I am here MOJO-JOJO. Just stopped by to check the forum. I apologize if I have read you wrongly but a few points:

1) Can one be an agnostic and a Christian at the same time? It sounds like a contradiction to me.

2)I had to look up apostate as I am not so bright and it appears that the definition fits you. Am I wrong in this?

3) What comments did you make that first made "Clint" suspicious? Were you real obvious about your agnosticism or did it take them a while to figure it out?

What name did you use over there? I'd like to see what you said!

tt

the tick

BTW, all three of my kids love the "Powerpuff Girls" so your screen name is okay in their book!



tt

joedad

Wouldn't it be great to have membership in a Humanist organization, an Atheist Organization, also be a Baptist, a Catholic, and a Methodist? Of course, you'd have to keep one association secret from the other.

Then run for public office. Might work!

joe

John Page

Great, we could call it 'schismism', otherwise known as the Freemasons.

[ March 09, 2002: Message edited by: John Page ]</p>

MOJO-JOJO

No Melly, I'm a peaceful person and you sound too sweet to clobber anyway. I appreciate your apology, your assumptions were understandable.

MOJO-JOJO

That's a secret , he's deleted most of my aPOSTates anyway.

But thanks tt, I appreciate your apology and I too apologize for getting a little miffed.

As I said, I guess I'm not much for labels, and I represented myself as a member of a Baptist Church and a Skeptic. I don't hold myself out as a professed "christian" anymore in the sense that Baptists use the term, so if you or Clint want to label me an apostate , so be it. I am a skeptical person seeking answers and proof on both sides of the argument right now. So far, the evidence for a natural, non-supernarural world is winning. But if my pastor were able to take me into a room, lock the door, and suddenly have an angel or Jesus himself appear over his shoulder to tell me that it's all true (and prove that this wasn't a trick), then I suppose I would no longer be "an apostate" and would be right back there with the holy rollers every Sunday. As the SBC teaches, "once saved always saved", right?...sign me back up!

But for now, I am simply a christian by heritage, not profession of faith. But then again fundamental Baptists don't feel that people like Catholics, Methodists, Jehovahs or Seventh Day Adventists are "real christians" either...so what the hell? This is obviously the view that Clint holds.

Clint basically said to me that "to be a Baptist, FIRST you must be a Christian". I explained to him that I am a baptized member of an SBC Baptist Church that has become skeptical about the claims of christianity. I further explained that this has lead me to a position in life where I am more of a freethinker and a humanist that neither sees enough evidence for or against the existance of a God (ie; agnostic, if that is what you want to call it). This lead him to tell call me a professed apostate, upon which he banned me from the board.

I also explained that I consider myself a seeker of truth, wherever that leads me, and that I wanted to bounce questions off the people on the board. Out of respect for my wife's continued spirituality and her desire to have our children learn about christianity, we continue to attend the church, albeit much less frequently than before. We still belong to the church and I am talking with several of my friends there about this, trying to explain to them what my concerns are and why I'm questioning the faith. But for the most part, I am experiencing this <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Anyway, yes, I would probably qualify as a politician right about now. (But I guess this is where the "Lord" is taking me and I have nothing to do with it! )

[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: MOJO-JOJO ]</p>

the tick

I appreciate the follow up and explanation, MOJO-JOJO. Perhaps I'll assert my fledgling membership and start a thread on the ethical nature of christian and secular message board memberships. Must think of an appropriate title for it though.

BTW, I joined the Baptist Board but have not posted yet. I'll look around and see if I can figure out who you were. Never been good at leaving a secret alone. There seem to be a number of us there already. For the most part, it seems a rather civil board. I'm just not one for holding someone's feet to the fire over their beliefs.

tt

MOJO-JOJO

Alright, alright....you've twisted my arm tick. Here is a thread I began over there. Clint didn't delete this one (wasn't on his board);

<a href="http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000196" target="_blank">Golgotha</a>

PS - My kids love the PowerPuff Girls too!

PPS - Let me know your User ID over there so I can follow your fun

[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: MOJO-JOJO ]</p>

MOJO-JOJO

"Jesus....he LOVES me, he loves me not, he LOVES me, he loves me not...."

or

"What to Believe? Why Joseph Smith and L.Ron Hubbard began their OWN religions==&gt;$$$$$$$$$$"

Skydancer

Excellent summary. Do you mind if I post it on other boards?

By its nature, fundamentalism rejects evidence, fact and rationality. It relies instead on rules, which are inflexible. People drawn to fundamentalism prefer that; it removes the uncertainty associated with having to work through moral problems. It also gives them the certainty that they crave, the assurance that makes them feel better.
But what if their interpretation of these rules is incorrect?

Because they are a fundamentalist, there is no way to exit the infinite loop - no way to inform that person that they're making a mistake. They can't discover it themselves, because they don't trust their own ability to reason and decide things. Other people cannot tell them, because outsiders are suspicious and might be from "the enemy". Their own religion isn't going to provide the correction; if it could do that, they wouldn't be in error in the first place.

They're stuck. With exit doors all around them, they're totally stuck.

By accepting fundamentalism, they have placed themselves in a "logic-proof box" with no way to detect error or deliberate deceit.

Churches are not the problem.
Fundamentalism is the problem.