peacenik

I happen to be a Christian(albeit a very liberal, free-thinking Christian who doesn't believe that sharing my religious beliefs is the only way to a higher spiritual plane); however, I too sometimes doubt the existance of an omnipotent being?

However, I have a question for this board. This question is just for the mere sake of curiousity. What happens to the electrical energy within our body when we expire? According to the Conservation of Energy theorem it has to go somewhere; it doesn't just cease to exist. There could be a perfectly valid explanation for this aside from the existance of a spiritual realm, I just want to know if there is one, or if this is an unexplainable mystery. I don't claim to be an expert at science after all, just a muscisian/songwriter.

Another question I have for the atheists on this board is whether any atheists believe in a spiritual realm because it seems like an atheist could believe that their is no God or omnipotent being, while still believing that our spirits live on after we die, or am I misunderstanding the definition of atheism.

Can anyone help me out with these questions?

HRG

The electrical energy within our bodies is minuscule compared to the chemical energy of the organics which build our body. What happens to it when we are dead and buried ? The ground gets a bit warmer. Heat is a form of energy.

Think of a strong permanent magnet; its magnetic field contains energy. You dissolve the magnet in acid - pop! no more field. Where does the energy of the field go ?

That's right - the acid gets a bit warmer.

Regards,
HRG.

Aquila ka Hecate

Hello peacenik,

I imagine that electricity is continually passing in and out of our bodies, so the question doesn't make a lot of sense - unless you think that the body's electrical currents are somehow different from other kinds.

One level, your question is fairly easily answered by answering this one:
Where does the electricity in your telly go when you turn it off?

But I intuit that you're after an answer which involves words like 'soul'...which I personally can't answer as I've never seen one, don't think them necessary as an explanation of anything, and don't beleive they exist.

Some atheists may (read:will) disaggree with me on this, but not, I venture, the majority of them.

As for 'spirituality'-well, again talking for myself, I'm a pagan as well as an atheist, so I'm not strictly a metaphysical naturalist; I'm prepared to beleive in a couple of things are possible which would horrify many members on this board, so I wouldn't call myself representational
But spirits or souls living on after we die?
I have to say, the evidence is strongly against it.

Danya

I think this is an excellent question. I do not believe in a God...I definitely don't believe in the Bible's version of religion. I do think it has some historical value as it pertains to the wars and the thinking of the people of that time.

But, I struggle with the spiritual or energy question as well. This is possibly wishful thinking on my part. But I have heard too many credible people that have had experiences that cannot be explained that I can't dismiss the possiblities out of hand. From psychics, to ghosts, to reincarnation, to aliens, who knows? I guess they are possible but I don't have faith enough in any of them as a belief system. I try to be open minded about these things but not so much so that my brains spill out.

Duck!

Cannot be explained or have not been explained? If their experiences cannot be explained, then it's not ghosts or aliens or telekenesis or God or ESP or demon possession or whatever. All of those would surely qualify as an explanation of some sorts.


Duck!

Danya

How about have yet to be explained? I am not saying I believe in any of these things. It only means that I do not believe we have all the answers and probably never will. Not only the things I listed before but also premonition, 6th sense, after death experience...things that happen to every day people in great numbers. I do not feel science or any belief system or religion has been able to fully answer some of those things.

john_e

Interesting topic, and I may be able to answer Danya's question about 6th sense, to an extent.

There's a beautiful physics/mind theory I recently stumbled upon called Sheldrake's morphogenetic field theory. I'll try and post a link to it shortly, but it basically says that our brains act as recievers for a second kind of electromagnetic energy "infolded" in normal EM waves. This infolded EM is also independent of space and time, and our brains are constantly leaving imprints of their thought patterns in in. Hence to "remember", we simply tune in to previous thought patterns. I'll skip the bit about species quantum potential. But, technically, if we are able to "tune" our brains well enough, we could access any information contained in the infolded EM, which theoretically includes all peoples thoughts, etc. Kind of like a collective consciousness. And if it's independent of time, then we may (that's a big may) continue to exist in some form after our physical bodies cease to function. I think Danya will see how this explains "sixth sense" and remote viewing.

Take care all.

http://www.twm.co.nz/shel-int2.htm

(found it!)

Oxymoron

The thing you have to remember about Sheldrake is that he's so far out on a limb he'll fall if he looks down. Though he tries to devise robust experiments to demonstrate his morphic resonances, he has yet to do so successfully. All credit to him for trying, but he has continually pushed his ideas long after the best experiments have said "no" or "inconclusive", and I think that weakens his scientific credibility.

john_e, you may find the theory "beautiful", but it is almost certainly bogus.

Oxymoron

The electric energy in our bodies is the same as the electric energy in any lump of matter, animate or otherwise. Salts of sodium and potassium have positively-charged metal ions and accompanying negatively charged ions. We have clever systems in our bodies that can extract the energy from these ions for the purpose of nerve conduction. When we die, we stop extracting it. The End.

pz

The "electrical energy" in our body is generated by maintenance of an unequal distribution of ions. The extracellular fluid-filled space is rich in sodium ions, while the cytoplasm within our cells is low in sodium. Electrical signals are generated by opening channels in the membrane, which allows positively charged sodium ions to briefly move inward; this movement of charged particles represents a current. The ions are then actively pumped out of the cell by ATP-dependent sodium pumps, which consume energy.

When you die, your cells no longer produce ATP, so the pumps stop working. Cell death is accompanied by activation of enzymes that break down proteins and the cell membrane, making it leaky. Sodium trickles (or rushes!) in, equalizing the ion gradient. No unequal distribution of ions means no potential for current flow, which means the "electrical energy" is dissipated.

That's it.

The "electrical energy" is not some autonomous entity. It is a property of the non-equilibrium arrangement of molecules in your body. It doesn't and can't "go" anywhere, except in the sense that it is lost as heat.