Vogelfrei

Hi all -- this is my first post here.

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum, but it seems like a reasonable choice. I'm very interested in the incidence of mystical experiences/altered states of consciousness amongst people, and furthermore, I'd like to see how that breaks down between theists of various stripes vs. atheists.

A mystical experience doesn't require that the experience interface with reality in any way besides the fact that it occurs; it doesn't neccesarily imply anything either way about God, reality, etc.

As for what qualifies as a mystical experience...by using broader categories and less stringent criteria, I'll get more responses, and thus more information; therefore, if you think it might qualify, it does.

So, if anyone has information to share, some details about the experience (content, circumstances, aftereffects, etc.) would be highly appreciated.

diana

Hm. You might need to be more specific in your request. I'm not sure what you mean by "mystical experience." People have different qualification systems for "mystical experiences." For some, nothing short of the heavens opening and God addressing them personally in a booming voice with blinding light would qualify. For others, escaping being stung by bees would seem to be sufficient.

If you mean, something that would suggest the intervention of a greater power, I can't think of anything I've ever experienced that would qualify.

I've always wondered about Edgar Cayce, though....

d

Koiyotnik

I'm with diana on this one. I would actually need a narrower criteria of what you would consider a "mystical experience." Though I can pretty much guarantee you that any experience I've had with anything, I would never attribute it to a higher being or some paranormal explanation. But that's just me.

And, diana:


Oh, obscure references, how I love thee.

Vogelfrei

By "mystical experience" I refer to states of consciousness or types of experiences, and not metaphysical happenings, as I said before. So if God saves you from an angry horde of bees, one might argue that it's a *miracle*, but that doesn't qualify it as a mystical experience.

I guess that I should choose a broader term. What I'm really looking to know is, what's the incidence of spontaneous altered states of consciousness that could be interpreted as evidence of communication with God, a higher meaning to life, etc. by a person willing to buy into those concepts? Clearly a person need not buy into those concepts to have such experiences, after all.

Some examples:

-Talking to God, angels, metaphysical beings, etc., whether profound or not
-Strong sense of meaning or purpose that transcends oneself, strong otherworldly feelings, etc.
-Out-of-body experiences, visions, anomalous processes of information transfer

Remember, any of the above examples can be instantiated to different degrees. Talking to God might involve a person experiencing being transported up to heaven, and chatting with him while he sits on a throne, but likewise, it could simply involve ideas in one's head that seem to have a "tag" denoting their source (ie God) attached. Similarly, "otherworldly feelings" could be a (non-cognitive) sense of God, etc. hanging around you, or whatever -- nothing spectacular.

To clarify about the "tag" -- the one absolute requirement is that the experiences must, *in themselves* feel otherworldy, or offer a mystical interpretation, or whatever. A person who believes in God can *interpret* all manners of things as being God-sent, but to qualify as a mystical experience, there needs to be some quality of the experience itself that suggests (even if wrongly) a special origin. Examples: "I had a dream that predicted the future, so I assume God sent it to me" doesn't count; "I had a dream about the future, and during the dream, I strongly felt that its origin was outside of me" does.

I'll be happy to clarify my question if it's still not clear. Thanks for responding.

Viti

Do chemically induced experiences count? We have several here who have purposely altered their perceptions.

Starspun

I knew a guy that had such a hard trip on shrooms', he became a born again xtian.

He mentioned something about walking with Jesus in betwen huge mushroom trees. From an outsider's perspective, he was sitting in the tent most of the night...paranoid.
(true story, btw.)
Does that count as a mystical experience?

Vogelfrei

Drug-induced experiences surely can count as mystical, but I didn't ask about them because most people (?) well-aware that they exist; on the other hand, whether these experiences occur spontaneously is information that I'm not well-acquainted with.

freemonkey

OK, here goes: I was never a huge druggie, but I did take them fairly often (recreationally) from the time I was in HS til I my mid 20's or so. One night I was ap all night long with a friend, doing coke and drinking.

I went home mid morning and got into bed. I don't know if I was awake, falling asleep or already asleep, but a huge face appeared above me, at ceiling height and said something like "you must stop this, right now." And I said "alright". The thing is, I wasn't afraid, it wasn't like a nightmare. I joked later that God came to my bedroom and told me to stop taking drugs.

Anyway, I did quit, because I really did think it was a hallucination, caused by a combination of drugs, alcohol and lack of sleep. It was life-like enough to cause concern that I was stepping onto a road of no-return.

Marduk

"Do chemically induced experiences count? We have several here who have purposely altered their perceptions."


weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! yesssss

I believe these experiences are the foundation of religion. Shamanism dates back to pre civillized times. Trances can be induced not only by a varity of fungi, plants & roots but also dreams and drum beats, read "The Way of the Shaman" can't remember the authors name but he is an anthropologist, who lived in current Shamanistic cultures and 'tripped' with these guys.
also Huxley "The Doors of Perception"

[ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]</p>

freemonkey

Mircea Eliade