Vesica

*sigh* Yes and as I went on to discuss I am not Jewish living in a small community. I am also not Paul or living in any New Testment-era settlements. When you can show me where the Bible states that the moral precepts it presents are supposed to be legal rules for everyone I will have to re-think my religion. I have not found it in there!

Thank you so much for allowing people theological freedom withing a given religious system...I am just a bit lost as to how you are an expert on a religion you do not follow and somehow can determine my degree of 'faithfulness'...That kind of "if-you-don't-agree-with-me-then-you-don't-believe" attitude is one of my main problems with organized Chrsitianity...which is why am I in a denomination that believes we all have brains and reading skills for a reason, so we can decide for ourselves what we believe. But anyway....I am used to getting slammed for being Christian and then slammed by the same people for not being the kind of Christian they want to be pissed off at!

Mark_Chid

That is nonsense. The virus spread quickly through the homosexual community because they were indulging in more high risk activity. Otherwise as soon as a single heterosexual case existed the disease would have exploded through the hetero community and since heteros outnumber homsexuals several times over heterosexual cases in the US would by now massively outnumber homosexual cases. They don't, therefore your argument is false.

Theres's no moral value judgement intended here, its just a fact that unprotected anal sex is the surest way to spread the virus through intimacy and its also a fact that gay man have more anal sex than any other group. To attempt to deny this connection is dangerous and dishonest.

Mark_Chid

In some parts of Africa male/female anal sex is widely practised as a form of contraception - this cultural difference along with weaker immune systems from poor diet and poor education has lead to heterosexual transmission being far more widespread there than in the West.

dk

The thread asks what Christians ought to do and feel about homosexuality in light of the OT and NT doctrine. My original rant attacked gay culture as destructive to its own constituents, and threatens the greater society with MDR-microbes bred under the decadence of privacy laws. Gays disproportionately (in the US) suffer and die from AIDs because the deadly microbes spread through high risk sexual behaviors promoted by gay culture under the guise of liberty and privacy. From a medical perspective contagious disease is fought ... 1) reducing incidence of exposure 2) isolation of clustered outbreaks and 3) development of vaccine. The US under the pressure of gay activists reopened the bath houses and other venues that profit from the high risk sexual behaviors that spread HIV/AIDs. Twenty five percent of AIDs survivors in the US are clustered in the metropolises of NY, LA, and SF where the deadly microbes jump from host to host in a mutation marathon .

There are some unmistakable parallels between murder and AIDs.

• Male offender/male victim 65.1%
• Male offender/female victim 22.4%
• Female offender/male victim 10.1%
• Female offender/female victim 2.4%

——— <a href="http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm" target="_blank"> Bureau of Justice Statistics </a>I could post similar statistics on blacks murderers and HIV+ gays. “Murder” carries a moral stigma in the form of a fact. A fact that contains in the subject “a wanton act to kill” with an object “a dead victim”. In fact young urban black men and gay men are statistically favored as “murdered victims & perpetrators of murder” and “fatalities of the AIDs virus & sexual contagions of the AIDs virus”, respectively.
In the US both prominent Black and Gay leaders have submitted grievances based upon Civil Rights Law seeking remedy. In the US about 50% of murderers are caught and convicted, and about 50% of AIDs fatalities are victims of MSM (male sex with men). What we have here is bigotry that confuses race and sexual orientation with moral stigma. But so long as black and gay Leaders protect murders and high risk promiscuous sex venues under the auspices of Black and Gay Culture they victimize their own constituents therefore are the true bigots and victimizers. Christians understand from Roman13:10 “Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law”. Unscrupulous corporations, bureaucrats and politicians prey upon blacks and gays, not Christians.

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: dk ]</p>

dk

The AIDs virus is spread from host to host by an exchange of bodily fluids through promiscuous male sexual behaviors, then the virus adapts over time to the immune response of the host (male or female). Women are generally less promiscuous and don’t secrete bodily fluids into men during sexual intercourse so are lower risk contagions. In Sub-Saharan Africa promiscuous male sexual behaviors are prevalently heterosexual, so the HIV virus adapts to spread heterosexually. In the US gays exercise their liberty to have promiscuous sex and the virus adapts. Lesbians are at very a very low risk because they are less sexually promiscuous, and don’t exchange bodily fluids during sex. I’m amazed I have to explain this. In the US they don’t even track HIV+ women as contagions. Why? Because HIV+ men spread HIV through promiscuous sex of any sort i.e. heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual.

Amen-Moses

Way to go ignoring the meat of my post!

The particular variant of HIV that is endemic in the US happens to be the mutated version of the African HETEROSEXUAL variant. This was spread to the US purely because the carrier was homosexual.

The big question is where that mutation occured, i.e did the carrier pick up the virus from an African bisexual (which would indicate that the mutation occured within the African chap) or did he get it from heterosexual transmission (maybe from an African woman) and it then mutated within the carrier?

Either way once established within the homosexual community (which as someone else pointed out did not use condoms due to lack of prgnancy/STD fears at the time) it (the newly mutated HIV variant) spread very quickly.

This varient is now very much in HETEROSEXUAL transmission stage, in fact the Chinese varient is a mutated version of the US one and it is prevalent more within the HETEROSEXUAL community that homosexual showing that the virus is extremely mutable (i.e it can mutate from mainly vaginal transfer to anal transfer and back again quite quickly).

btw the most prevalent HIV variant in the world today is NOT anally transmitted and (due to the fact that many northern Europeans are immune to it) is not NEW, ie Europe at some point in the past has already endured an AIDs epidemic or two and is possibly the origin of the variant that is now decimating the population of Africa.

Amen-Moses

Amen-Moses

What complete and utter bollocks!

The heterosexual variant of the HIV virus CANNOT, get that CANNOT, survive in the fucking ANUS!!!

If Africans were indeed using anal sex as a form of contraception then they would be suffering far less HIV infection that they are!

Why don't people do even the most minor investigation of a subject before posting such complete and utter shite?

Amen-Moses

Autonemesis

And it was in the US that anti-gay Christian agitators turned it into a political issue by attempting to first, suppress any government research into the cause of "gay cancer" and later, actively tried to use AIDS to justify quarantine programs aimed at gay men.

You bet it is political. The right-wing anti-gay Christian "moral majority" made it so. It is the way they wanted it, and even now, they still want to suppress any government research into mitigating the disease. No way can you lay the blame for politicization of AIDS at the feet of the gay community. Christains did that when they interfered with efforts to acquire funding for researching the disease in the early 80s.

MrDarwin

So you agree that the subject of HIV and AIDS is completely irrelevant to how gay people per se should be treated by society, and under the law? Why then are we having this conversation in the first place?

dk

dk: - Writing the post I took a few notes and copied some tables, then ran down the links to HASR source reports to see how the presented data was summarized. The difference between the 76% (typo?) and the actual 52% (MSM + MSM & IDU) of total cumulative AIDs cases with respect to per capita representation (2-3%) in the greater society is irrelevant to my point, my point being that gay men are disproportionate victims of AIDs.
I should have said, “Surprise, surprise 20 years into the AIDs epidemic gay (men) that compose 2-3% of the total US population represent 52% of people living with AIDS” I really don’t know what I was thinking when I typed 76%. And I’m sorry it sent you off to do back flips, and appreciate the correction. The real number serves to demonstrate the point.
dk: After completing my analysis the HASR aren’t terribly good indicators of the present, and pretty much useless for predicting future trends. I pulled the HASR reports from 1992 to 2001, and % change in MSM % v. NIR % form a mirror image, NIR runs up from 5% to 25% (net 20% gain), while MSM decreases from 61% to 43 (net 18% loss) in new male cases reported year after year.
Even more striking is that 75% of new heterosexual AIDs cases (male and female) reported are classified under “Sex with HIV-infected person, risk not specified”. In the future I suspect health officials will use sympathetic STDs like syphilis, gonorrhea to identify AIDs outbreaks. Multi-drug Antiretroviral treatments have made AIDs Surveillance obsolete by delaying HIV progression to AIDs, and government has hamstrung the health industry by its failure to accurately report HIV outbreaks. This is really a shame because good historical data might have saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the US. This could become an epoch tragedy if failed health policy looses a MDR resistant contagious microbe into the general population. I don’t know how the Health Care Industry and scientists can optimally direct their efforts resources without the pertinent historical data. I suppose we can hope for a wonder vaccination.

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: dk ]</p>