Ron Singh

Well what do you want a theist like me to say?
What makes you think that God is tied into this? This Persinger fellow seems to think that this relates to God. That's what he thinks. Is there any evidence that this relates to God? Evidence, isn't that what the atheist seeks, and has not yet found? Then why make assumptions without it.
<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Toto

The evidence is that mystic feelings, or feelings of God, can be caused by magnets. Since the feelings of God are the basis for many claims that God must exist, this article undercuts that evidence. Unless you think that God cleverly designed the human brain to feel His presence only in certain magnetic fields, for reasons best known to Him. . . . (If you believe that, I have some investment opportunities in bridges you might want to consider.)

In other words, every place you look for God, you find an alternate explanation that works as well or better. So where is the evidence for God?

Ron Singh

I'll quote the article itself:
Subjects, who were exposed to a specific series of pulses from TMS, described feeling an invisible presence near them or feeling connected to the whole world.

This says nothing of God, or feeling God. This is about feeling a "presence".

Toto

It's in the sentence before what you quoted:

Ron Singh

Yes, I already addressed that before. That is his personal perception. Also, he would need a frame of referance. Has he felt God before?
Toto, thanks for not being malicious, and not calling me ignorant or anything of that sort. God knows we theists have a hard time gettin respect on the boards around here.

hal9000

BUMP BUMP BUMP. Boy where are the big theist guns when you need them?

Toto

I didn't know what I was starting. I assumed some theist would announce that God created holy magnetism and structured the brain so we would know Him through magnets. (Although it's funny there isn't a relgion built around magnets.)

Good try. No, he hasn't felt God before, since there is no God. But maybe he thought he felt God before. People have those sensations all the time, but it would not be smart to assume that they come from God, because they occur among believers in a variety of incompatible religions, often after ingesting controlled substances or suffering from organic brain disease.

Taffy Lewis

Neuroscientists can artificially bring about the experience of being touched (tactile sensations; not emotionally touched)by stimulating specific areas of the brain. Does that mean people who have the experience of being touched are never in fact touched?

Mad Kally

If it's artificial, they would only think they had been touched.

philechat

Actually the experience of synesthesia will also bring about illusory tactile sensation. Tactile and visual synesthesia could be induced by drugs, music...etc., and the illusions are "real" according to the person experienced.

And those experiences could be addicting...myself included (with music). No wonder people go on elaborate measures to "channel" the "religious experiences" which is in essense a form of synesthesia.

Oh...and BTW I think theists miss a lot in terms of the "varieties" of their synesthesia experience. The way they are forced to interpret their "religious experience" with a fixed set of imagery...How boring!

[ May 11, 2002: Message edited by: philechat ]</p>