Freethought & Rationalism Archive

S2Focus · 07-11-2003, 11:58 AM

Read and enjoy!

Whiney press-release #1 :boohoo:

Whiney press-release #2 :boohoo:

Rhaedas · 07-11-2003, 12:13 PM

Maybe someone at DI should come forward once and for all and clearly define what Intelligent Design is. Let the theory itself stand up against evolutionary theory.

I love the quote I keep seeing

Quote:

CNN wrongly defined intelligent design theory as the belief that �an intelligent being created life on Earth.� Actually, intelligent design is the hypothesis that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

1) intelligent being, cause, god, whatever...it's all the same rhetoric. Evidence?

2) undirected process is the new catch phrase for implying random process, which is not what evolution theorizes.

Again...why is ID better at prediction and explaining what we see in the fossil record and around us? Don't introduce mysterious intelligent forces when none are needed.

Grumpy · 07-11-2003, 01:32 PM

A lot of complaints about media inaccuracy/bias are focused on background boilerplate. I've been noticing complaints from various quarters about sentences that are intended to sum up complex ideas & situations. People feel like their side is being shortchanged, but the condensed format of newswriting often does not leave space for every nuance & subtlety.

In this case, DI should understand that CNN does not have all day to explain exactly what Intelligent Design is about. The quick & dirty summary is the best they can hope for -- and as I read it, accurate in its essence.

Albion · 07-11-2003, 01:37 PM

Quote:

There was testimony from three people who urged the Board to improve textbook coverage of evolution. But none of them talked about the Bible, and none of them advocated the inclusion of creationism in textbooks. Instead, they focused on increasing the coverage of evolutionary theory to include scientific criticisms that appear in peer-reviewed journals.

Um...OK... such as?

And what's with all this stuff about not wanting "design theory" (please don't let's call it creationism!) in textbooks but wanting textbooks to include a fair and balanced discussion of evolution? If they don't want YECism or IDism included in textbooks, what DO they want? Those are the only challenges to evolution out there.

Quote:

Discovery�s Center for Science and Culture has more than 40 Fellows, including biologists, biochemists, physicists, philosophers and historians of science, and public policy and legal experts, many of whom have affiliations with colleges and universities.

Just as a matter of interest, does anybody know how many of the 40 aren't Christians?

theyeti · 07-11-2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

The effort to detect design in nature is being adopted by a growing number of biologists, biochemists, physicists, mathematicians, and philosophers of science at colleges and universities around the world.

Sounds just like...

"Greater and greater numbers of scientists are joining the ID movement, which is why we keep referring to the same three year after year."

http://www.talkdesign.org/faqs/hunch/hunch.html

Quote:

American scholars who adopt a design approach include biochemist Michael Behe of Lehigh University, microbiologist Scott Minnich at the University of Idaho, and mathematician William Dembski at Baylor University.

And here they are! Man, these people are soooooo amenable to satire.

theyeti

RufusAtticus · 07-11-2003, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Albion
Just as a matter of interest, does anybody know how many of the 40 aren't Christians?

Or how many are named Steve?

Nic Tamzek · 07-11-2003, 01:55 PM

The newer-and-slicker DI press flunky writes,

Quote:

CNN wrongly defined intelligent design theory as the belief that �an intelligent being created life on Earth.�

Gee, however did anyone get that idea?

Evolving Banners at the Discovery Institute

Nic Tamzek · 07-11-2003, 02:10 PM

The DI writes,

Quote:

Discovery Institute Fellow Ray Bohlin, from Richmond, Texas, discussed some scientific weaknesses of evolutionary theory not covered in most textbooks and presented the Board with a statement from 100 scientists challenging the neo-Darwinian claim that natural selection acting on random mutations is sufficient for explaining the complexity of life. Dr. Bohlin holds a Ph.D. in Molecular and Cell Biology, an MS in Population Genetics, and a BS in Zoology.

...and he didn't learn a galldurn thing, because he's apparently a YEC or some closely related species:

Quote:

http://www.origins.org/articles/bohl...evolution.html

How to Talk to Your Kids About Evolution and Creation
Dr. Ray Bohlin
Sue Bohlin

Raymond G. Bohlin is executive director of Probe Ministries. He is a graduate of the University of Illinois (B.S., zoology), North Texas State University (M.S., population genetics), and the University of Texas at Dallas (M.S., Ph.D., molecular biology). He is the co-author of the book The Natural Limits to Biological Change, served as general editor of Creation, Evolution and Modern Science, and has published numerous journal articles. Dr. Bohlin was named a 1997-98 and 2000 Research Fellow of the Discovery Institute's Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture. He can be reached via e-mail at rbohlin@probe.org.

Sue Bohlin is an associate speaker with Probe Ministries. She attended the University of Illinois, and has been a Bible teacher and conference speaker for over 25 years. She serves as a Mentoring Mom for MOPS (Mothers of Pre-Schoolers), and on the board of Living Hope Ministries, a Christ-centered outreach to those wanting to leave homosexuality. She is also a professional calligrapher and the webservant for Probe Ministries; but most importantly, she is the wife of Dr. Ray Bohlin and the mother of their two college-age sons. She can be reached via e-mail at sue@probe.org.

...and they write...

Quote:

What we have tried to do in this discussion is help parents understand the biblical accounts of creation in the early earth so that they can explain it to their children. Although we have presented a few options instead of absolutes, we can still tell our kids that God is the Creator and Sustainer of all things, and that the flood was a real event, although some of the details of how these things happened may escape us at this time. This approach allows us to communicate clear biblical truth while at the same time encouraging a child's curiosity and desire to investigate God's world. This is our Father's world, and it delights Him when His children want to discover it and search out the mysteries of the past, of history, of His story.

See that link also for examples of his textbook "criticisms". They do give a little blurb to the local flood theory though so there's a chance they're not complete YECs, although I wouldn't bet on it...

PS:

Quote:

What is Probe?
Probe Ministries is a non-profit corporation whose mission is to reclaim the primacy of Christian thought and values in Western culture through media, education, and literature. In seeking to accomplish this mission, Probe provides perspective on the integration of the academic disciplines and historic Christianity.

Worldtraveller · 07-14-2003, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Albion
Just as a matter of interest, does anybody know how many of the 40 aren't Christians?

Follow the links for the Meet the Fellows and Board of directors to see who they are.
After skimming the first few, it seems they are avoiding any reference to a specific religion, except for a few vague references such as 'being a churchman'.

-Lane

MrDarwin · 07-14-2003, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Discovery Institute Fellow Ray Bohlin, from Richmond, Texas, discussed some scientific weaknesses of evolutionary theory not covered in most textbooks and presented the Board with a statement from 100 scientists challenging the neo-Darwinian claim that natural selection acting on random mutations is sufficient for explaining the complexity of life.

Problem is, no evolutionary biologist thinks random mutation and natural selection in and of themselves are sufficient to account for the diversity and complexity of life! Extinction is one of the driving forces of evolution, and (in my opinion) is probably at least as important as natural selection in explaining the complexity and diversity of life.

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07-11-2003, 11:58 AM	#1
S2Focus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 1162 easy freeway minutes from the new ICR in TX Posts: 896	DI bitches and whines about CNN coverage in Texas Read and enjoy! Whiney press-release #1 :boohoo: Whiney press-release #2 :boohoo:

07-11-2003, 01:32 PM	#3
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	A lot of complaints about media inaccuracy/bias are focused on background boilerplate. I've been noticing complaints from various quarters about sentences that are intended to sum up complex ideas & situations. People feel like their side is being shortchanged, but the condensed format of newswriting often does not leave space for every nuance & subtlety. In this case, DI should understand that CNN does not have all day to explain exactly what Intelligent Design is about. The quick & dirty summary is the best they can hope for -- and as I read it, accurate in its essence.

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