ps418

Again, Diesel, this article is very familir to me, as I read many books on the supposed 'holographic mind/holographic univese', on Bohm's ideas about the implicate order, Karl Pribram's brain research, and so on. But this article does not present a shred of scientific evidence for your claim that matter can be created by mind. Got something better>

Diesel800

Psr418, I knew you probably know about the holographic theory (In fact it would seem strange to me if some here don't know about it). Then you must know this part, as this is what Pribram and Bohm believe based on their studies and research...

"believe that the universe itself may be a giant hologram, quite literally a kind of image or construct created, at least in part, by the human mind."

Here's some more...

<a href="http://www.discover.com/june_02/featuniverse.html" target="_blank">http://www.discover.com/june_02/featuniverse.html</a>

<a href="http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~grassie/StudentProjects/Rubik.html" target="_blank">http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~grassie/StudentProjects/Rubik.html</a>

And here's a quote from George Wald ("Life and Mind in the Universe." International Journal of Quantum Chemistry; Quantum Biology Symposium, 1984, pp. 1-2.)

"Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality…the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is mind that has composed physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create."

Diesel800

One more, hope you don't mind...

<a href="http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/new_page_13.htm#9.4.%20%20Objectification,%20the%2 0body-mind%20organism,%20and%20the%20primacy%20of%20memo ry" target="_blank">http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/new_page_13.htm#9.4.%20%20Objectification,%20the%2 0body-mind%20organism,%20and%20the%20primacy%20of%20memo ry</a>

Diesel800

You'll see on the last link what I mean.
I have done it to get into medical school, although (it's a lottery in the Netherlands, litterally 5000-6000 applicants, 2000 places). I never let in the doubt that I couldn't get in. While the year before, I didn't get in. That good enough? I also changed my face once purely by believing it already being changed (I didn't have any dimples a few years ago, now I have them).
According to some, everyone does it all the time, but most people do it unconsiously. (By not being aware of what they habitually think about).

More stuff on consciousness & matter.

Science proves mind's power over matter
<a href="http://twm.co.nz/teleg_PK.htm" target="_blank">http://twm.co.nz/teleg_PK.htm</a>

Consciousness as an Active Force
<a href="http://twm.co.nz/consciousness.html" target="_blank">http://twm.co.nz/consciousness.html</a>

elwoodblues

Have you ever, EVER heard of what's called 'scientific method'?

ps418

I'm asking for the scientific evidence that mind can create matter. This is not scientific evidence that mind creates matter. This is a collection of new-agey, Tao of Physics catch-phrases. What is the evidence for these claims? Why should I think that any of these claims are true? And how can I make a cheeseburger out of mind stuff?

ps418

Do you really have to ask?

You're not inspiring much confidence. Supposing that story is true, what makes you believe that your dimples were created purely by belief power? How do you know they werent created by one part of your brain affecting another part of your brain?

Do you think I could will some dimples into the Mona Lisa? Now that would be convincing! Or does it only work for your face, which hust happens to be directly connected to your brain?

The first link purports to give evidence for psychokinesis (pk), based on the claims of Robert Jahn of the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research project. I am very skeptical of Jahn's claims, because they claim an incredibly small pk effect that only emerge after thousands or millions of trials attempting to bias the outcomes of random number generators. But even if I took Jahn's claims at face value, they would not support the creation of matter by mind. Plus, the pk effect is so small that I could never create a cheeseburger, much less a universe.

The second article is even worse. It endorses homeopathy and chakras and energy bodiea, and cites Depak Chopra as a source. There's nothing much there resembling what I would call evidence.

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: ps418 ]</p>

crocodile deathroll

Yes I have never doubted that it was the other way around "matter created the mind" or at least the configuration of matter and not the matter itself. As there is not a single atom by itself that is the slightest be consious but enough atoms in the right configuration may cause that thing we call consciousness flash into existence as an emergent property.

As for the mind creating matter this only indicates to me that some people are taking the "Mind of God" a little too literally. This smacks a bit to me of fundamentalism.

Diesel800

Can you ever, EVER see the difference between personal experience and and scientific experiments???

Diesel800

That's why I cited the article where that quote came from. (International Journal of Quantum Chemistry )So you can find it if you're close to a library. I doubt it'll be as a whole on the net.