MOunderground

Because the government of Israel is in the hands of fundamentalist believers, our financial aid to them constitutes a violation of church state separation. It would be no different if we were sending billions of dollars to the Vatican.

Brian K.

This is a very bold statement. I don't know if you said this to get a better reaction, or if you truly feel this. I don't think that Israel is run by fundamentalist at all. Ariel Sharon is not a Fundamentalist, but I'm sure he has a few on pay roll. Everyday on the news we hear that Israeli Militants (Armed Soldiers) have killed numbers of Palistinian people. I've argued against some that feel that this is because the Israeli's are killing innocent people. This is a Bold statement as well, but it isn't innocent people killed, it's Palistinian terrorist (Unofficial Armed Forces). I'm am quite sure some innocent people are killed in this manner, but is a reaction to some terrorist attack from the Palistinians.

Brian

kingcrim99

In order for this argument to have any degree of consistency, we would have to also say that U.S. aid to any country with heavy involvement in religion (or a flat out official state religion) is a violation of the Establishment Clause, would we not?

The Saudis (Sunni) and, to a lesser degree, the Egyptians (Sunni), as well and the Thais (Therevada Buddhism) and Italy (Roman Catholicism) all qualify. I know we give military/diplomatic support to the first three, and we're in this little mutual defense pact with the last one (and I'm sure we sell them weapons via the FMS program, etc.)

Whether or not the U.S. should support Israel is a question of U.S. foreign policy interests, not the Establishment Clause, IMHO.

Edit: forgot a sentence I meant to throw in.

[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: kingcrim99 ]</p>

ohwilleke

Don't forget the English which have an established religion (Anglicanism) with guaranteed seats in paraliment.

Moreover, Israel's constitutional policy has always been to have a secular state in which many Jewish people of differing beliefs, as well as a handful of Arab citizens, co-exist. A very significant percentage of Jews in Israel are secular Jews, and a realtively small, albeit politically important part of the population is extemist in their religous beliefs.

Overtly religious parties are important in the Kinesset, as one part of often governing coalitions, but most European countries have far more powerful Christian democratic parties, and in the U.S., in which, because of our electoral system, coaltions must be made before the election, rather than after the election, both the the two major parties have key religious constituencies -- Jews and African-American protestant denominations for the Democrats, and white evangelical Christians for the Republicans.

It isn't improper to disapprove of Israeli policies, or any other government's policies, and to lobby the government not to support the government holding those policies, but I don't believe that this constitutes a violation of the separation of church and state.

Toto

Some support of Israel is by people who do not respect church-state separation: see <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=59&t=000116" target="_blank">this thread</a>