Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Dargo · 05-26-2003, 11:17 AM

There are, of course, many verses in the Bible and other "holy" books braging about merciful various dieties are. I wonder if the authors actually believed what they wrote.

The Bible was written in an age of absolute rulers. Absolute rulers could do anything they damn well pleased and any of their subjects who were unfortunate enough to have angered the rulers were in serious trouble. The only recourse for these subjects was to grovel and hope the leader would take pity on them. It would be a good idea to say things like "O mighty king your mercy is without limits. Please spare this lowly worm from your terrible wrath." It is highly unlikely the subject actually believed the king was merciful but could only hope that by appealing to vanity, the king could be convinced to change his mind. Did the Biblical authors really believe god was merciful or were they simply groveling before him in hopes he wouldn't do anything really bad to them?

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 11:24 AM

Hammer...Nail....HEAD....

mike_decock · 05-26-2003, 01:01 PM

Well said!

:notworthy (pun intended)

-Mike...

Marduk · 05-26-2003, 04:07 PM

There is some stuff in one of the apochraphal books of Abraham where Abe is in Heaven and sees various people sinning, God offers to show compassion but Abe is cheesed off and wants them whacked, so God says �OK it�s your call� and has the Earth swallow them up.

triplew00t · 05-28-2003, 12:57 AM

That would be why its apocryphia. The idea that God can be persuaded by man had to be suppressed. Otherwise, anyone could disagree with Him (and more important to the church fathers, that would mean anyone could disagree with them too).

-Nero

Marduk · 05-28-2003, 03:24 PM

Even in Genesis God and Abe quibble over how many righteous men must be found in Sodom before God decides not to nuke the place, God says 50 Abe says 40 and so on.

malookiemaloo · 05-29-2003, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dargo
There are, of course, many verses in the Bible and other "holy" books braging about merciful various dieties are. I wonder if the authors actually believed what they wrote.

The Bible was written in an age of absolute rulers. Absolute rulers could do anything they damn well pleased and any of their subjects who were unfortunate enough to have angered the rulers were in serious trouble. The only recourse for these subjects was to grovel and hope the leader would take pity on them. It would be a good idea to say things like "O mighty king your mercy is without limits. Please spare this lowly worm from your terrible wrath." It is highly unlikely the subject actually believed the king was merciful but could only hope that by appealing to vanity, the king could be convinced to change his mind. Did the Biblical authors really believe god was merciful or were they simply groveling before him in hopes he wouldn't do anything really bad to them?

Whether they understood that God is a loving God or not I don't know but I think they understood that there was a harmony between love, mercy, grace punishment, judgement etc which I believe is lost today to a great extent. 'Trendy' christians major on love and sweep everything else under the carpet.

Interesting point. Jesus also 'got the balance' right. I think I am right in saying that He spoke more of judgement than He did about love. I think there is a lesson for all of us there.

m

mike_decock · 05-29-2003, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by malookiemaloo
Interesting point. Jesus also 'got the balance' right. I think I am right in saying that He spoke more of judgement than He did about love. I think there is a lesson for all of us there.

What is that lesson and in what way is it "balanced"?

-Mike...

malookiemaloo · 05-29-2003, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike_decock
What is that lesson and in what way is it "balanced"?

-Mike...

The lesson is, I believe, that we must remember that God is a just God who hates sin, as well as loving His creatures.

I suppose that Jesus understood both in correct measure. In fact to quote the evangelical cliche ' justice and mercy met together on the cross'.

m

wildsimian · 05-29-2003, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by malookiemaloo
The lesson is, I believe, that we must remember that God is a just God who hates sin, as well as loving His creatures.

I suppose that Jesus understood both in correct measure. In fact to quote the evangelical cliche ' justice and mercy met together on the cross'.

m

Hates sin and loves his creatures? I'm sorry but I have a problem with this. Would any one of us send one of our own "children" off to an enternity of hellfire and brimstone because one of them pissed you off?

I wouldn't. I must have a higher ethical standard than ... God?

It's just my opinion, but the Christian God seems to be a neutered rip-off of any one of the old pagan Gods.

05-26-2003, 11:17 AM	#1
Dargo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 713	Did the Biblical authors actually believe god was merciful? There are, of course, many verses in the Bible and other "holy" books braging about merciful various dieties are. I wonder if the authors actually believed what they wrote. The Bible was written in an age of absolute rulers. Absolute rulers could do anything they damn well pleased and any of their subjects who were unfortunate enough to have angered the rulers were in serious trouble. The only recourse for these subjects was to grovel and hope the leader would take pity on them. It would be a good idea to say things like "O mighty king your mercy is without limits. Please spare this lowly worm from your terrible wrath." It is highly unlikely the subject actually believed the king was merciful but could only hope that by appealing to vanity, the king could be convinced to change his mind. Did the Biblical authors really believe god was merciful or were they simply groveling before him in hopes he wouldn't do anything really bad to them?

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05-26-2003, 11:24 AM	#2
keyser_soze Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: god's judge (pariah) Posts: 1,281	Hammer...Nail....HEAD....

05-26-2003, 01:01 PM	#3
mike_decock Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 1,505	Well said! :notworthy (pun intended) -Mike...

05-26-2003, 04:07 PM	#4
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	There is some stuff in one of the apochraphal books of Abraham where Abe is in Heaven and sees various people sinning, God offers to show compassion but Abe is cheesed off and wants them whacked, so God says �OK it�s your call� and has the Earth swallow them up.

05-28-2003, 12:57 AM	#5
triplew00t Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 141	That would be why its apocryphia. The idea that God can be persuaded by man had to be suppressed. Otherwise, anyone could disagree with Him (and more important to the church fathers, that would mean anyone could disagree with them too). -Nero

05-28-2003, 03:24 PM	#6
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	Even in Genesis God and Abe quibble over how many righteous men must be found in Sodom before God decides not to nuke the place, God says 50 Abe says 40 and so on.

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