Dodgy

First, excuse my grammar.. my practical English started only few years ago. So hopefully I’ll make my views clear.

Why people argue over biblical creationism and evolution when they both can be true. I’m not religious neither I’m an atheist, I believe in everything that’s possible. In other words.. one things is what I believe and the other thing is what I know. And no one knows what happened outside our own life space and time so we have no right to claim that our beliefs are facts and truth.. all we have are stories or speculations. Although I believe in both (evolution and creationism) I find evolution more applying and understandable so therefore more believable.

Anyway.. back to the point of merging evolution with creationism. Example: Suppose a watchmaker puts together and starts a brand new watch at 9 am. Now, a few hours later an observer would examine speed and position of an arrow and concludes that 6 hours ago, a small arrow was 180 degrees back, showing 5 am - where actually that’s impossible because this watch didn’t exist then. Only creator of that watch knows when this watch started ticking. Although all mathematical examinations proves other. So even time travelling won’t disprove creation of our universe because we always can turn our watches back 100 years. Right?
Another example – Lets design particular moment of a snooker game where all the balls are with certain motion in certain direction. We can design any combination with unlimited possibilities. From there on, future of the balls depends on starting design. Lets say, a few seconds later an observer steps in again. Theoretically he could analyse the motion of the balls and predict the future as well as past - further than our initial design!
So God could have just designed certain 7 day scenario 6000 years ago (or whatever that age is) and we, as observers, can only analyse state and rules of the scenario that we are living in now and say that if world would’ve been deigned 4 billion years ago, it would be like our examinations proves. In other words: God designed only certain section of time and that shaped our future and the past beyond actual existence, which are accessible by our observations.

There are some mathematic examples as well (shaping fractals and tracing their shape into infinity) but I guess I’ve made enough explanation so far.

Dodgy.

(in the end.. when all this is over.. everything will be totally different from our expectations, beliefs and knowledge.. we will realise that non of us was right or wrong. It will be un-expectable and even unimaginable to us – so make sure you’ll live your life by not wasting it on fanaticism or egoistic rationalism)

Doubting Didymus

Or, alternatively, god could have created the entire universe just one minute ago, complete with a full past. That is what you are suggesting, isn't it? That the universe is gods 'watch', and it looks like it has been around for a long time, but actually isn't? So how do you know that the universe wasn't created yesterday?

Evolution and creation are only compatible when you take the veiw that god created the universe to LOOK like it is very old, complete with a fossil record that shows animals that never existed.

Dodgy

hmm.. kind of but not really because If I’ve been made 1 minute ago.. my memories and experiences were designed with it so basically God still created me long before 1 minute ago

Where what I’m trying to say is that God shaped only portion of last minute and rest of the past took natural shape using existing rules.. just the same way the future comes naturally without design.

Doubting Didymus

God could have made you with all your current memories already in place.

What are you trying to say, exactly?

Dodgy

If God designed my memories, then that means he designed all my 24 years as well and fact that he executed time a minute ago - doesn’t matter at all.. What is age and time to you personally? It’s memories and experiences not measurement from outside dimension.

Anyway.. that’s different debate and my point is bit different. It’s like… to God, time is a static dimension – like a framed painting. If he painted some landscape within certain frame (time), we could look at it and continue drawing same landscape outside frames. If that painting would be some mathematical fractal then we (observers) could recognise pattern, determine equation and draw precise drawing outside frames – although God painted only within frames.

So, using your example to explain mine again: if God created world a minute ago, he only designed.. lets say.. few second period from starting minute. Everything else outside that time – my memories etc – gets formed in both directions of time by natural laws.

abe smith

Ummmm... My Impresssion Iz , Dodgy, that your thinking is long on *speculation* & short on hands-on experience. Not my purpose to find-fault w/ you, Person. My qy, tho: do you have some sort of stake in trying to PROVE that(your) deity created the cosmos? what sort of physical (I'll label it "real".) evidence do you offer, to persuade us to this point-of-view?. Keep at it here; worth a discussion. Welcome to our midst. Grandpa

Dodgy

All I can prove is that it can’t be proved. You can’t prove when watch started ticking.

Also, in such scenario, creation and evolution don’t contradict with each other. And if there are fewer arguments then it’s more likely to be true.

Although – a new question arise: existence of God – which is more complicated to prove than creation I guess.

Bubba

You can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt when the watch started ticking, but we have NO evidence whatsoever that it was created with the appearance of age. In other words, the clock gives evidence that it has been running a long time and we have nothing to refute this claim or even bring it into question.

Bubba

Bubba

Nor do we have Any and I mean any evidence of recent special creation.

Bubba