Sabine Grant

Oh caro Ronin ! I suggest ice cream instead of popcorn as it has such a cooling and sweetening effect on a sharp tongue.

Amos... Tribal Europe! mais non! Who inspired the revolutionary spirit of the founders of the american nation? You would still be a subject of the Throne of England without those tribal europeans. Voltaire, Diderot and Montesquieu just turned over in their graves at the sound of your words ( french expression).

Sabine Grant

Dear Amos... " Notre Dame de Paris" ( The Hunchback of Notre Dame) is actualy very revealing of Hugo's deconversion from catholicism. Both the monument and the priest who resides within symbolize the institution and dogma of the church. A sense of intense doom prevails thru them in the novel. Esmeralda is the purity and goodness of the people. She gave water to Quasimodo and resists the corruption and persecutions of Frollo. Anarkia means fatality. The words written within the walls of the cathedral. So much symbolism to explore and I strongly recommend you read it. Quasimodo is finaly set free from the endoctrination and dogma Frollo implanted in him as he raised him from infancy exploiting his vulnerability, at the end of the novel... his immense and devotional love for Esmeralda leads him to killing Frollo. The author 's final words describe the discovery of two skeletons embraced years after the hanging of Esmeralda, sentenced to death by the schemes of Frollo. One skeleton was horribly malformed the other with a broken neck. ( sorry... this happens to be my favorite novel). Quasimodo was set free by his love for the goodness of the gipsy woman. Frollo wanted to destroy that goodness as he was tormented in his own flesh wanting to own the woman and her character. Despite of her death, the message of redemption thru love prevails thru the knowledge of true love by Quasimodo.

V .Hugo despised both the Emperor and the catholic church. His pantheism was the result of his seeking a different God than the catholic god. It was never the product of catholicism.

I also suggest you read his biography.

Amos

Hello sabine, what did I tell you! The Church must become the enemy as it was for Jesus in "get thee behind me satan." She's so clever, it is just unreal, and just like a good woman that will never wait for the credit she deserves.

I like you synopsis and will read it now. I love those kind of novels and will just devour it.

Amos

Revolution and rebellion it was, and both of these forces were nourished and fed by the entropy of their own mind that was placed there during the Renaissance! Have you not noticed that protestant religions only ever mastered war and rebellion?

Thor Q. Mada

The catholic church was, is, and will be the real enemy of the people.
The legal establishment of christianity should be put on trial.
What have been the fruits of the church:
More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.
I strongly suggest defenders of this obsolete monument of cruelty and stupidity to look at:
http://essenes.crosswinds.net/m23.htm

Gemma Therese

Thor Q. Mada,

Anything you could show me is not enough to stop my loyalty to the Roman Catholic Church.

Gemma Therese

Thor Q. Mada

Poor Gemma, you stand withness to the evil power of the institute. They so succesfully indoctrinated you that it is impossible for you to critically think.
I am interested. How have they done that?? Lobotomy??

Gemma Therese

You will note I was once an atheist. I am now a Catholic of my own free will.

If it was impossible for me to critically think, then surely I should be an atheist from the amount of time spent on this message board.

Gemma Therese

Amos

Hey Thor Q. Mada, was it not you who spend 12 years in a Catholic Institution? Did they let you out or did you just leave?

Arrowman

Dear Gemma - I think you mistyped "possible"