Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Marduk · 11-02-2002, 06:57 AM

If you see the body/consciousness as something that is apart from the universe, then when the body dies it is over. If you see the universe as a continuum of which the body/consciousness is a part of, then death is only a change of scenery.

11-02-2002, 08:57 PM

There is also, of course, the possibility that if neuronal activity could ever be emulated, there would be a gradual informatic degradation.

Aging, in other words, would continue. Human brains were only designed to last for 50 or 60 years, after all.

elwoodblues · 11-02-2002, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Human brains were only designed to last for 50 or 60 years, after all.

This is actually a bigger problem than it at first seems.

There ARE certain mechanisms in the human body that make us die eventually, to free up room and resources for the next generation. These mechanisms are complex and poorly understood. There is no reason to assume that these mechanisms might not be tied into the brain and information processing in the brain. As holistic as bodily functions tend to be, it'd be very surprising if cognitive fuctions were so compartmentalized that the aging mechanisms were actually absent.

And if you need these aging mechanisms to loyally duplicate and replicate brain fuctions, the problems become apparent...

I'll have to think about this one...

young_bible_boy9 · 11-03-2002, 02:50 AM

ahaaa...!! human brains are designed for a certain operational life. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Aerik Von · 11-03-2002, 04:44 PM

I can't imagine that the cells would lack this containment of this info...if our minds are contained to itself - we surely must lose all that we have ever learmed.

The sheer purpose of writing being the ONLY important thing I suppose - don't lose what we have learned that way.

Gringo · 11-03-2002, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marduck:
<strong>If you see the body/consciousness as something that is apart from the universe, then when the body dies it is over. If you see the universe as a continuum of which the body/consciousness is a part of, then death is only a change of scenery.</strong>

Putting it that way sounds promising. How can we be apart from the universe? Unfortunately, the future of the universe seems bleak. Hopefully, someing is going on like what the m-theory suggests to give us an endless story.

Answerer · 11-03-2002, 07:07 PM

As much as I wanted, I don't think M-theory could offer us a good or full explanation of beginning and end of the universe. In any case, its just a theory and most people don't have much faith in it.

young_bible_boy9 · 11-04-2002, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by marduck:
If you see the body/consciousness as something that is apart from the universe, then when the body dies it is over.

The basic elements of the physical body ARE part of the universe (gross physical matter/organic compounds), as are the basic elements that make up
the function of consciousness as well.
But after death these exist in a chaoticelly "disassembled" nonfunctioning state(consciousness ESPECIALLY!).
The chances of re-"assemblage" to the identical previous state that made up the unique individual person are out there with monkeys-at-typewriters writing encyclopedias etc.

(btw I've got assembly etc in quotes because of the God-consciousness thingy implied in order to assemble)

Quote:

Originally posted by marduck:
If you see the universe as a continuum of which the body/consciousness is a part of, then death is only a change of scenery.

Maybe not just a continuum but a duality,as well - functional "fully assembled" life forms vs life forms in a degraded "disassembled" state (death).- THE TWO SHALL NEVER MEET AGAIN, at least not as the same identical individual.

Marduk · 11-04-2002, 06:25 AM

“Hopefully, something is going on like what the m-theory suggests to give us an endless story. “

The m-theory is a little too endless for my liking.

Infinite infinities is a bit hard to grasp.

“Maybe not just a continuum but a duality,as well - functional "fully assembled" life forms vs life forms in a degraded "disassembled" state (death).- THE TWO SHALL NEVER MEET AGAIN, at least not as the same identical individual. “

Maybe this is backwards, as a single body, the universal soul is disassembled, when the body dies the soul returns to the whole.

young_bible_boy9 · 11-05-2002, 05:52 AM

By "universal soul" we mean what...?? Gross physical (nonliving, organic) matter?? Or some sort of consciousness?
I'd go with the former, being disseminated throughout the biosphere pretty much. If one chooses the God-route, maybe one day He/It will return to reclaim or redeem this universal soul, possibly thru some sort of burning process (effects on Earth of our sun reaching red-giant stage maybe??) until then.... it still seems highly doubtful that individual humans will ever see a life-after-death consciousness.

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11-02-2002, 06:57 AM	#11
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	If you see the body/consciousness as something that is apart from the universe, then when the body dies it is over. If you see the universe as a continuum of which the body/consciousness is a part of, then death is only a change of scenery.

11-02-2002, 08:57 PM	#12
Synaesthesia Guest Posts: n/a	There is also, of course, the possibility that if neuronal activity could ever be emulated, there would be a gradual informatic degradation. Aging, in other words, would continue. Human brains were only designed to last for 50 or 60 years, after all.

11-03-2002, 02:50 AM	#14
young_bible_boy9 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 29	ahaaa...!! human brains are designed for a certain operational life. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

11-03-2002, 04:44 PM	#15
Aerik Von Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Hell, New York Posts: 151	I can't imagine that the cells would lack this containment of this info...if our minds are contained to itself - we surely must lose all that we have ever learmed. The sheer purpose of writing being the ONLY important thing I suppose - don't lose what we have learned that way.

11-03-2002, 07:07 PM	#17
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	As much as I wanted, I don't think M-theory could offer us a good or full explanation of beginning and end of the universe. In any case, its just a theory and most people don't have much faith in it.

11-04-2002, 06:25 AM	#19
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	“Hopefully, something is going on like what the m-theory suggests to give us an endless story. “ The m-theory is a little too endless for my liking. Infinite infinities is a bit hard to grasp. “Maybe not just a continuum but a duality,as well - functional "fully assembled" life forms vs life forms in a degraded "disassembled" state (death).- THE TWO SHALL NEVER MEET AGAIN, at least not as the same identical individual. “ Maybe this is backwards, as a single body, the universal soul is disassembled, when the body dies the soul returns to the whole.

11-05-2002, 05:52 AM	#20
young_bible_boy9 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 29	By "universal soul" we mean what...?? Gross physical (nonliving, organic) matter?? Or some sort of consciousness? I'd go with the former, being disseminated throughout the biosphere pretty much. If one chooses the God-route, maybe one day He/It will return to reclaim or redeem this universal soul, possibly thru some sort of burning process (effects on Earth of our sun reaching red-giant stage maybe??) until then.... it still seems highly doubtful that individual humans will ever see a life-after-death consciousness.

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