Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Arrowman · 10-24-2002, 10:47 PM

- This is not really Church-State, because there is no mention of God in the Aussie national anthem and the proposals mentioned here are more about patriotism/jingoism than God, but
(a) God will come in to it, don't you worry. Lots of Australian talkback radio listeners think we need to "get back to God" and they think it's a pity the national anthem is silent on that subject.
(b) This (CSS&SA) is where all the Pledge-related stuff goes, and I'd rather discuss it here than in Politics.

Today I was able to put my IIDB experience to good use!

Over the past few days there has been some discussion in Australia about a suggestion by the Federal Education Minister that (a) our children need to learn more about Australian history and patriotic symbols (flag etc) in school and (b) as part of this, we need to re-introduce regular flag-raising and "sing the national anthem" ceremonies in schools.

(This latter practice has been out of favour for probably 15-20 years. When it was in vogue, we used to recite an "I am an Australian / I honour my flag" kind of thing but Australia does not have a formal "Pledge of Allegiance" as in the US.)

Needless to say, the United States is frequently mentioned in the discussion, on both sides, depending on whether you see the US people as (a) paragons of patriotic virtue or (b) a jingoistic race who have a blind "my country, right or wrong" attitude.

Now, I'm OK with the first suggestion, because it is true that compared to, say, the US, Australian kids are poorly informed on such matters. I don't see it as a major patriotic or jingoistic exercise (although I fear that that is part of the Minister's motivation) - just as a matter of education.

As for the second suggestion - well, here is a letter I wrote, which was published in today's Adelaide Advertiser. Note that I am able to apply my extended knowledge gained through participating in the IIDB!

Quote:

Dr Nelson may be right in his suggestion that Australian schoolchildren should learn more about our national history and symbols (Advertiser, 24 October). He is wrong, however, to assume that participation in a ritual demonstration of patriotism would contribute to any such education. It certainly didn't for me when I experienced it in the late 1960s.

Also, in citing the United States as an example Dr Nelson would do well to realise that under the laws of that freedom-loving nation students may not be compelled to participate in flag-raising or Pledge of Allegiance ceremonies.

All of today's letter section was given over to this subject; mostly people saying "good idea / kids of today" and all that crap. I expect to be called a Godless communist traitor because I don't think we need to force our kids into a meaningless ritual (and despite the opening sentence of my letter - there are, after all, only two possible positions on this issue

)

dangin · 10-25-2002, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrowman:
<strong>-
Now, I'm OK with the first suggestion, because it is true that compared to, say, the US, Australian kids are poorly informed on such matters. </strong>

Egads man, you mean to tell me there are 1st world nations where children are edcuated more poorly than american children are in any subject?

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