Ronin

I think we should really consider the elements of the article before we render such an absolute judgement in six minutes.

Would a DSM-somenumber really effect your position that much anyway?

Just asking.

christ-on-a-stick

I'll try to dig up what I'm thinking of (my googling skills are not as proficient as many here!) but IIRC, much of fundamentalist religion (of all flavors) *does* fit one of the DSM-IV disorders - Delusional Disorder (Grandiose Type perhaps?) I'll try to find it...

HelenM

Well, ok, I admit my objection was to the subtitle/summary statement and the opening paragraphs.

I suppose they might not have represented the whole article fairly.

But if not then it wasn't very well-written (imo)

Ummm...that's a good question

It would disappoint me. It may well not change my views.

I know. I admit I might be particularly touchy about calling religious fundamentalism a mental illness

take care
Helen

christ-on-a-stick

Hmmm..... just a couple random thoughts... I am digging around on the net today to find some info further to what I posted earlier (about fundamentalism being thought of as mental illness and its shared characteristics with the DSM-IV's Delusion Disorder...)

Anyway, if I find anything that I can put together coherently I will... but in the meantime I had a (lightbulb!) thought....

Perhaps one of the reasons that even some non-theists are wary of or "offended" by the thought of considering the possibility of theism being considered a mental illness is because of the still-pervasive stigma attached to the term "mental illness". I think a lot of people automatically have connotations of a person being "crazy" or obviously not in their "right mind", such as a schizophrenic, manic-depressive in a hypomanic cycle, etc., etc.

However, it is important to note that there are MANY disorders in DSM-IV, that would generally fall under the category of "mental illness", that may in many cases not even be noticeable to others as the sufferer goes about their daily life.. they are still able to function, work, interact with others and speak coherently, etc., but still be mentally ill. In other words, mental illness does NOT = raving loony.

For my part, I *do* consider god-belief (invisble being that cannot be seen or heard by anyone else but "speaks" to you) to be a form of delusional thinking. Fundamentalism in a more extreme form, to be sure - i.e. the adamant refusal of YEC's to accept scientific facts, biblical inerrancy (talking snakes, sun standing still, etc., etc.).

Do you (anybody) think that if mental illness were less stigmatized (as I think it still is to a great degree, regardless of its increased acceptance) that it would be easier for people to look at religious belief skeptically and say "y'know, this does seem kinda delusional" ?

HelenM

But no-one who thinks it's true is ever going to consider it it 'delusional'.

I agree that it would be good if there could be less stigma about mental illness - I'm all for that. But even if it had no stigma, illness is illness. It means something is not working right. And I don't think I'll ever agree that anyone who believes in God has a brain that isn't working correctly. As if to say, if we had the right knowledge and medication we could fix the brains of all the theists and turn them into atheists.

Do I believe some extremely fundamentalist Christians could have an undiagnosed mental illness? Sure. But I don't limit that only to people with extreme and dogmatic religious views. People can be extreme and dogmatic about other things and as far as I'm concerned it's equally possible that they have an undiagnosed mental illness. (Assuming that they have enough and severe enough symptoms to warrant a diagnosis based on DSM-IV and by a qualified professional)

Helen

Caverdude

Very good point Helen. I could see how I can easily become somewhat intolerant myself - something to be aware of. Thanks everyone for great input. I also enjoyed the article noted. BTW, I was not saying the "mental illness" thing with tongue in cheek. When I see people become irrational and take actions in their lives that are self-destructive, then I feel they need some help. I have witnessed such behaviour with several friends in the past five years.

malookiemaloo

Helen,

I said I would come back to you re old KJ but we were studying Daniel 9 last night ( the 70 weeks and all that) and I never got the opportunity to find out more on the Geneva bible. Sorry!


Alistair

VonEvilstein

I certainly would not want any religious person on, for example, a jury convened to determine my guilt or innocence. If one can reach such a strange conclusion as the existance of a god, on the basis of no evidence, then such a person cannot be considered fit to wiegh the evidence against me and reach a sound verdict.

HelenM

Thanks

I can agree with that statement, actually. I think there's a big difference between being concerned about someone whose behavior is self-destructive, and concluding that someone is mentally ill simply because of their belief system.

And maybe there is some causal relationship between the person's self-destructive behavior and their beliefs, in some cases. But it's not necessarily the belief system itself. It could be the way they interpret/apply it; it could be the overly-authoritarian religious organization they belong to, etc. It still is a far cry from saying that strongly-held religious beliefs imply mental illness, per se.

Helen

HelenM

Fair enough, Alistair. Thanks for the follow-up response!

No offense, but if you post more on the topic of the KJV, could you post it on this thread which I started, so that I could stop discussing the KJV on this one?

I posted a couple of links on there you might be interested to read, about the Geneva Bible and the KJV...

My Bible study last night (the one I attend, I mean) was about Rahab the prostitute. (It was about her faith, not her occupation)

take care
Helen