MrDarwin

Sorry, I just had to ask. I don't understand why people need to believe in God or Jesus to give their lives meaning. Life is worth living. Can it possibly be any more simple than that?

Liquidrage

What I don't understand is how that meaning relates to the religion being true or not.

Actually I do understand it and it doesn't relate. Whether it gives someone the warm fuzzies or not has no bearing on the truthfullness of the claims.

Starboy

That is probably one of the best explaination of why it is still around. Not here for "truth", it is here for meaning.

Starboy

WWSD

Fear of death.
It took me a while to drop the whole religiosity thing becasue of this. I didn't want to simply "stop" existing.

Now I really don't care.

The reason cited by my fav cathoholic is that she simply "needed" religion to go on with life.

Fear of death I figure. Interestingly, she said the same thing would happen to me, and she put the timeline for it happeneing in my 27th year!

Well, looks like I've got all of a month here with you guys before I begin the long road back to cathoholism.

However there is hope! I've read the bible, and she hasn't...

Starboy

Facts are a terrible thing to waste (on religion).

Starboy

woodchuck

Life is worth living, can it be any more simple than that?

For who? I know plenty of people... TONS of people who would disagree- not christians, anybody. People born into abusive homes, people born with defect, people who have been through nothing but hard times.

Your life may have been worth living, great, and if thats all you wanted, thats all you get I guess. But you made a statement that is personal to you, not common to all.

You have stated that there is such a thing as worth, and you make it sound absolute, when your philosiphy denies absolute worth. You could just as easily say that life is worth dying- thats really what you have said. It's totally worth it to go through life and live and grow and love and learn and then die. It's worth it to become something that becomes nothing.

That's why at funerals people are always so accepting of death and so happy to see people go- because life is worth living, and dang it, they lived it. I hope you sense my sarcasm.

The fact is, is that I've been to funerals chalk full of atheists who were wailing and crying in the pain of the loss of a loved one. People who claim that death is just a thing like living, yet when faced with it they shatter into emotion and ask the great nothing that created them "why?."

What your asking is, why don't people just accept YOUR definition of meaning and reject there's? I can answer that- because the meaning I have found in Christ is a meaning that is real and true and I live it in Joy every day. My meaning was not made up by a man, my meaning will not change with my emotions, my meaning is absolute and secure. My meaning does not change with mans philosophies, trends, or preferances- my meaning is solid and that is one of the greatest freedoms of knowing the Truth. (I know you guys hate when we naive cross huggin lower life forms say that)

The things I found meaning in before I met Christ changed almost daily, when I met Christ, he remained the meaning I have.

How do you consider your imagination meaning?
-eef

frostymama

Been there... done that.

not a serious or life threatening one, but enough to make me the subject of stares and ridicule all of my life.

Would you consider having no place to live or starving "hard times"?

I still don't need an afterlife. LIFE is enough.

I ate Pascal's Wafer

woodchuck, I don't really want to figure out what you're getting at in the first part of your post, so I'll let somebody else address it. It's unclear to me what your intentions are. I do want to address the latter part of your post, though.

Many people do that, not just Atheists. I've been to several funerals where the Christians are uncontrollably wailing away. They should be thrilled that the person died and is now in the hands of the almighty. Funerals should be a party to them because their loved one is now in the loving hands of their creator, right?

But no, they cry and wail just like everyone else. People who have lost loved ones cry in part because they know they will not see that person again. Every contact they will ever have with that person will be in memories of times past, and they know that new memories are impossible at that point.

Atheists do come to accept death like everyone else, and over time they move on just like everyone else. They realize that it's something that happens to everyone and that it's just a part of life, but it still doesn't make the initial pains of losing a loved one any less.

I've never claimed such a thing. I give life my own meaning, and I hope that someone else gives their own life meaning. What I find meaningful in my life doesn't apply to anyone else, so I would hope that they seek to give their own life meaning rather than depending on my own definition.

Good for you. So many other people have found a meaning through Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and even Atheism. What works for one does not work for another, and I'm happy that you found something that gives meaning to your life.

Uh, yes, the concept that gives meaning to your life was made by a man. Don't be so quick to assume that your meaning will not change as your emotions and experiences change. Things that gave my life meaning 5 years ago fail to do so now. Perhaps Christianity will continue to give meaning to your life, but there is every chance that it might not as well. In that respect it's not absolute.

I would hope that the meaning of your life doesn't change with somebody elses philosophies. However, if you do consider those different philosophies you may find something in them that would change the entire way you view your life, and thus change the meaning you attach to your life. Besides, you haven't experienced the greatest freedoms of knowing the Truth until you become an Atheist.

Oh, I find it mildly amusing. It reminds me of my high school days when every team yelled, "We're number one, we're number one" without any support for that assertion. They could lose 7 out of 10 games the entire year, and they're still number one if they beat their rival team at the end of the season. Just like high school sports, you claim you're right and have access to the Ultimate Truth (TM) with no substantiation behind that assertion.

That's nice. I can say the same for me. Back when I was a theist my meaning in life changed constantly as I learned and understood different things about God. Now that I'm an Atheist the meaning in my life is fairly constant. What's your point?

Huh?!?

-Nick

woodchuck

I gotta make one more point...
This is that truly the topic is "why not the atheist worldview? why the Christian worldview?" Right?

Why add God to life, why not remove God from life.

In the athesit world view, this world was not created, it just happened. Nature explains everything natural, and nature is all there is. The metaphysical is relative and our meaning and value is created by us and others.

Now, I know allot of you want to argue that what I just said of Atheism is logical truth, not philosophy- but your wrong because it is philosophy- its the philosophy you embrace and in looking at reality, its the conclusion you come to. It can't be proven empirically, and if it can, it hasn't yet, therefore, if thats what you believe, you believe a philosophy that is not proven true by science. Atheism is a philosophy.

In my worldview, God created the world with a purpose far better and bigger than we could ever imagine. The world exists because of God, we live because of God, without God we have nothing.
My meaning is in God, because only He understands my value. Since this has not been empirically proven, I will say this is my philosophy that I embrace because when I look at reality it logically points to God. Though for me this is not a contradiction, because I do not require empirical evidence for all things in life, because I believe that there is more than nature, and that science cannot prove everything, for science is limited to only test the physical.

Our human concept of value is limited, but only God knows the true value of a human. Look at us- apart from God we think we're only worth this quick life as you guys have expressed on this thread, but in God's eyes we are intrinsically worth it to be kept alive for all of eternity.

Do you see why Christianity, why not atheism? In God I have a value beyond my comprehenssion, in atheism I can only determine my own value by my own limited capabilities- and my valuation of myself flucuates with my emotions and my experiences.

Anyway, lookin forward to the responses to this one.
-eef the woodchuck

agapeo

Why not either of them? IMO it boils down to whatever works for the individual in order to live life as fully as possible. To enjoy life as fully as possible. If for you it is that Atheism facilitates that then I say "more power to ya!" If for me if Christianity does so then so be it. To each his/her own is my philosphy in life. I don't have to "walk in your shoes" and you don't have to do so in mine.

I suppose that one of the irritations that an atheist may have is when Christians suggest that unless you become one you can't possibly be happy with your life as is. I disagree with that thinking. I've seen far too many "non-believers" who were happier than a lot of believers for that to be true. And I think that Christians should take note of that to discover why they (non-believers) are and can be happy.

OTOH I don't think it can be claimed that simply by being an atheist can one find true happiness and meaning in their lives. We find it whereever we can. So to the question: Why be a Christian? I can only say: Why not? Whatever works for the individual is fine by me. Just don't suggest that your way is better than my way and therefore I should abandon mine.