Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Keith · 07-24-2003, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth

..."hence the necessity of consensus. God and the Bible is worse than useless because the Bible illustrates that God's morals suck. I don't want people doing to me what God told them to do, just like I assume you don't want terrorists doing to you what Allah told them to do."

If what you say is true (about how morals are relative; not absolute) on what basis can you judge that "God's morals suck"? Do His morals suck because you say so, or are you basing it on some current consensus?

Keith · 07-24-2003, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth

"I don't want people doing to me what God told them to do, just like I assume you don't want terrorists doing to you what Allah told them to do."

As you will probably agree, there is no Allah.

Biff the unclean · 07-24-2003, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
The life and ministry of Jesus while He was among us, was to teach us what the law is and is not intended to do for us, and how to apply God's moral law.

I can't help but notice that the NT is very much anti-gay. The silly sods make Paul's top ten list of "THINGS THAT WILL KEEP YOU OUT OF HEAVEN" (1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10). I also can't help but notice that from the day they started until the 1980's Christians have made Gay's lives miserable (and, until the 1700's, Short)

But somehow since the 1980's their attitude changed. Did Jesus send an E mail?

Mageth · 07-24-2003, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
That's right. The life and ministry of Jesus while He was among us, was to teach us what the law is and is not intended to do for us, and how to apply God's moral law.

"OK, guys, here it is: don't do what daddy told you to do in the Scriptures any more. It's immoral."

Mageth · 07-24-2003, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
No. Our rights have always come to us from God even though men want to add to, or take away from our God-given rights.

Provide some evidence for this. What rights we have are given to us by each other. See the U.S. Constitution/Bill Of Rights as an example. Many if not most of those rights are not provided to us in the Bible.

Biff the unclean · 07-24-2003, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
If what you say is true (about how morals are relative; not absolute) on what basis can you judge that "God's morals suck"? Do His morals suck because you say so, or are you basing it on some current consensus?

How about on the bases that if you followed god's morals you would be thrown in jail on a morals charge? God's morals, as stated in the bible, are far below our societies standards.

dk · 07-24-2003, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
This may be offensive, but I�m going to say it: I can�t stand Christians. And I used to be one. At the time I was really ignorant and I was not using my brain. I was being stupid.

(snip)

I have Christian friends, but I�d rather have friends that are not religious. It�s just that I don�t know anyone in person who is Atheist or Agnostic. That�s what you get when you live in a small town in the Midwest - ignorance.

(snip)
Why should I be friends with people who believe terrible things, and think I�m doomed?

I'm late on this conversation so...

Since you're into using you're brain, then it should be no surprise that what you want is "friends that think like you", as opposed to friends that use their brains.

Mageth · 07-24-2003, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
If what you say is true (about how morals are relative; not absolute) on what basis can you judge that "God's morals suck"? Do His morals suck because you say so, or are you basing it on some current consensus?

God's morals suck, as depicted in the OT, when compared to the "relative" humanistic morals to which I and many other humans adhere, which, unlike God's morals actually consider humans and human life to be worth something more than just as pet creatures to be forced into worshipping and obeying a God, with the alternative being death, destruction, and eternal hellfire.

God's morals suck to me, personally, because any god who could command me (or any other parent, now or in the past) to kill their rebellious child (or beat them with a rod, for that matter) is not deserving of my or anyone else's respect, and, if it exists deserves to be disobeyed and scorned.

God's morals suck to me, personally, because any god who could command his followers to kill witches, homosexuals, and many others is a malicious, inhumane monster that we, as humans, should not look up to as a moral example.

Is that good enough for you?

Biff the unclean · 07-24-2003, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dk
...it should be no surprise that what you want is "friends that think like you"...

Maybe instead of "friends that think like you" it should be "friends that, like you, think."

Mageth · 07-24-2003, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
As you will probably agree, there is no Allah.

And there's no God either. In both cases, there's only people who believe the myths and, unfortunately, choose to obey the commands of their respective Gods, which are in actuality the commands of men bent on manipulating humans to their own ends.

There's no Allah, there's no God, but the "morals" you have described on this thread are in essence no different than those practiced by the Fundamentalist Muslims that allows them to feel justified by their particular God in actions such as 9/11.

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