Jacobus Altus

Folks:

Is religion now marginalizing itself, and if so, why?

I thought it useful to bring this discussion from a minor thread about church-state separation into a more general discussion about religion.

I wrote: (in May 2003)

“The Western world is in an epochal transition: we are finally shrugging off religion after 30,000+ years of blind submission to the priestly class who heretofore supposedly intervened with the gods on our behalf. In the US, those identifying themselves as Christians of one type or another will become a minority in the next few decades. (See http://www.religioustolerance.org.) That trend in the US is lagging Canada and some European nations by a decade or two.

“My view is that superstition has almost run its long course. The thought process that has placed reason and critical thinking over the cradle-learned, faith-and-hope bases for judging the truth of a proposition or of what constitutes reality has finally won, after many millennia. The demise of superstition in its various forms (religion, mediums, tarot readings, palmists, faith healers, etc) will marginalize religion in the next few decades, an epochal transition in the society of humans. [I would note that saying the current precipitous decline of religion in the West is 'historic' would be a vast understatement, since religion existed far into prehistory. Hence, I prefer to characterize religion's decline as 'epochal' rather than 'historic'.]

“You may well ask what drives this epochal transition from superstition to reason? My answer would be complex.

“First, the wide publication (late 1400's) of the Bible. Gutenberg's invention of the printing press enabled the literate to read the entire Bible. Those few 15C literate folks, maybe 3-5% of the European population, could then question why God ordered Joshua's several genocides, or why God Himself was a Genocide in the Noahic flood. Those along with dozens of other 'hard questions' (like the Problem of Evil) implicit in the Bible were almost completely ignored in ministerial preaching to a mostly illiterate populace of the time. The few 15C literates then could question the 'teachings' of the Bible because the printing press made it available to them.

“Secondly, the advent of near universal literacy in the late 1800's let the uncognoscenti (if that’s a word), the rest of us, into the game. Where and when allowed, a common person finally had the access and skill to read the Bible and its many criticisms. E.g.: 'Why Am I Agnostic?' by Robert Green Ingersoll c 1890.

“Lastly. The Internet, arriving on society’s doorstep about a century after the advent of universal literacy, makes dissenting views available worldwide to those who are literate. Take this forum (Infidels) as an example.

“Religion is marginalizing itself in our lifetime”

Your thoughts?

Best, Jacobus Altus

beastmaster

Jacobus, I wish you were right, but I fear you are completely, utterly, absolutely wrong. In fact, I think the religious revival of the U.S. -- rather than the religious apathy of Europe and Canada -- is the wave of the future in the West. The three reasons you provide for religious decline all proceed from the (flawed) assumption that people who can read do read.

Jacobus Altus

Hey, Beastmaster. Thanks for the reply.

I have not been said to have been completely, utterly, absolutely wrong for a long time, so thanks for testing my view of reality so strongly.

I travel though in good company. Please see http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm for data supporting my (hmmm...?) non-revivalist view.

Note also the following quote from the Barna Research Institute. "There does not seem to be revival taking place in America. Whether that is measured by church attendance, born again status, or theological purity, the statistics simply do not reflect a surge of any noticeable proportions." George Barna.

So, why do you think that religious revival is the wave of the future? [Serious question.]

Some Christian groups have certainly been more organized and more vocal in recent years, and their mass media networks surely reach more people, but the telling statistic is the partial-population of religious people. And it has declined as shown by very large scale self-identification polls over time by reputable institutions.

Also, you altered my insight about literacy, made it absolute by using "all", and then knocked down the strawman. It would be impolite for me, a new user here, to point out fallacies in your comment, so I won't. ;-)

I look forward to your reply. Best, Jacobus Altus

Ispikes

Well, in the west it appears to be in decline (ie Europe) but then in Asia many fundamentalist sects are "witnessing to the heathen" though charitable operartions and groups such as YWAM. Although many of the adherants to these sects may be "rice christians", fundamentalist belief seems to thrive on being a minority.

111111

As Adam left the Garden and the shelter of a magical God, so now we Men and Women leave the Garden of superstition to a scientific path to God. Call Him "evolution," call Him "science," call Him "abiogenesis," it's still the same God, just wearing new shoes.

Ronin

I'll call Him Sue...or Turn Runs Down Pipes...

Your assertion that the word 'God' can be so mystified merely renders that very word totally meaningless.

...which is not a bad thing...just superfluous and useless.

Keep up the good work.

111111

How exactly does this render the word "God" meaningless? God is, above all else, the wondrous mystery that both science and faith seek to decode, from differing angles and perspectives.

Ronin

God is no mystery...especially your favored Christian God, as told in the biblical fables.

Reality is...no deity required.

Calling reality or the universe 'God' is superfluous...and only allows for interpretive divisions and intolerance.

Sensible people no longer believe in miracles or gods.

They were invented by priests and mystics to muddle our minds from the beauty of the universe of all interdependent things in plain view.

111111

You still do not understand me. God is many things....why can He not be the supernova and the pulsar, in addition to being the anthropomorphic sentient representation of Mankind?

JGL53

God is dead. Science slit his throat with Occam's Razor.