Nira

As I thought no one cared

I have been an Atheist for a long time now, and have never really thought about it much. I don’t think it defines me as a person, and it’s not how I present my self. If it were natural to mention that I’m an atheist I would say so, and expect no negative response.

I have followed this bb lately and was surprised about the stories told here, and almost started to feel like being part of a persecuted group.

At a new job I met a strongly religious woman and for the fun of it I thought I check her reaction out. I started out discussing general issues as social conscience, which seems to be bigger with Christians in Europe than in the US, and then mentioned that my values comes from a non theist point of view.

It did not have an affect at all. We were cool.

We talked some more and I steered the conversation to values, and mentioned that I did not believe in inherent morality. She said, “you do believe in good and evil”?

Here it comes I thought with a smile. I’m going to be persecuted now, looked down on, ridiculed. Yay…..

“No I don’t”

“Oh”, she said.

Got you your narrow-minded person I thought, and said out loud “did I shock you with that answer”?

“Not at all” she answered, “why should it?”.

“Many Christians are shocked by this I said”, even if I had never experienced it outside of the Internet.

She smiled. “You know the human ethic society is very close to us in values. Some say that they behave more like Christians than the Christians them self. No I am not shocked by hearing that you don’t believe in good or evil”

So that was it. I’m not persecuted, I’m not fighting the “man” and seemingly I’m not even viewed as a tiny nuisance. The “fundies” and I are good.

Radcliffe Emerson

I don't get many bad reactions. The only people I won't tell about my beliefs are my parents, because they're both in their 70s now, mom is battling cancer, and I see no reason this late in their lives to upset them that I don't share their biblical Christian beliefs.
My sister knows about it, she agrees with me to some extent.
Most of the other people who know me also know about my beliefs, or lack thereof.

BibleBelted

Have to say that I've gotten very little grief about my atheism, even here in gawd's country.

Of course, I don't tell just anybody.

The few who have felt moved enough to try to bring me back to the fold gave up as soon as they realized that I really had read the bible, and could use (and misuse) it better than they.

Nira

While I understand that it’s tough for some, like the girl that told her Preacher mum, I cannot help to feel that some of the persecution threads here must be a tad over the top.

Somewhat like the Christian “persecution” we hear from theist fundies.

A self-fulfilling prophecy? To polarised fronts hitting each other over the head with tales of horror, and with a false sense of a need to retaliate/defend them self?

Toto

I think it must be different in Europe.

Barney Gumble

It is _very_ different in Europe, a fact which has been made many times in these forums when a European is mystified by such stories.

Boshko

My two best reactions to me revealing my atheism were:

"You've been reading books, haven't you? Maybe you should read this book (pats bible)"
my grandfather a retired Lutheran Minister (had to try hard not to crack up since the Bible was the one of the biggest contributing factor to my atheism )

"I don't have a problem with you being an atheist, as long as you don't have a problem with me being God."
yay Fruedian slips

"A self-fulfilling prophecy? To polarised fronts hitting each other over the head with tales of horror, and with a false sense of a need to retaliate/defend them self?"
Yeah this happened to me, I think reading a lot of stuff on this board (especially the Sec Life sections with the anectodes about annoying theists) made a lot more combative in discussions in my Religion & History seminar, good thing my Epicopalian mind since I liked having a devil's advocate on hand and I ended up with my highest grade of the semester in that class

[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Boshko ]</p>

Bialar Crais

Indeed it is very different. First time I heard some of the US "coming out" stories I was...surprised. I couldn't imagine it beeing true. Well, at least I was convinced about that until I ran into some of the US fundies on boards such as this. And started to dig a little deeper.

Now I do understand why US atheists reacts so strongely to (perceived) threats to church/state spearation, and suchlike. And, I'm very glad I'm living in sweden where theists in general, and fundies especially, are quite a rare breed.

Nira

Are you sure about that?

When I first went to US BB’s I was surprised at the incredible level of racists, homophobes, conspiracy nutcases, warmonger and so on and so forth.

For a while I subscribed to the ignorant American myth. Then I went to a Norwegian BB and found much the same, and frankly the impression given on these BB were noting like the society I live in. It was just fringes spewing hate towards each other.

It’s dangerous to think that “this” is the same as the “real world”.

It _ seems _ like there is a bit more tension in the US, and that leads us to an interesting question.

In Norway we have a state church. Terrible concept really, but….

It has lead to an open, liberal and tolerant church and a marginalized fundie base. The states values are reflected in the church values even on issues like homosexuality and women priest.

This has lead to _ many _ Christians wanting a separation of church and state in order to get a greater say over church politics, while some non-teists are afraid of the consequences and want the state church to continue. How do you like them apples

I must say that while out of principle support a separation; I see that it could actually have many negative consequences and that it would empower the NewsNetDaily crowd. I’m also afraid that it will give the opportunity for out of centre Christians to get more involved in politics, and that an “anti fundie Christian” movement would also rise.

It’s not a given that a battle organisation like the ACLU (?) in the US is all that positive, as it tends to create an equally battle happy opposition. As I said, it creates it’s own self-fulfilling prophesies.

Buffman

Nira

Superficially, Norway is a wondefully tolerant country concerning religious or non-religious beliefs...especially considering the established Lutheran national church. However, is it true that official Lutheran membership is only the fourth largest religious community in the country?

Norway also has the benefit (or bane) of abundant North Sea Oil. (Second largest exporting country in the world.)It also has a huge country for very few people per square mile. (Approximately 4.5 million people.) It also has a huge personal income tax program. Education, medical, and retirement needs are met by the state. Norway's literacy rate is one of the highest in the world. Recently Norway was selected (by those who do that kind of selecting) as the number one country in the world with the best standard of living.

So what is the general attitude of the residents about increased immigration from Muslim, Oriental or African nations? Have the Saami People problems been resolved? How well do the folks from Kirkenes get along with those from Oslo?

The point I am attempting to make is that the current U.S. Government is actively engaged in promoting a specific Christian dogma in this country. Who are those responsible for this and why are they doing it? If the Free Lutherans of Norway started an active campaign to take over the government so that only those that practice their religious dogma could receive the full benefits of government largess, how do you think you might respond as a taxpaying atheist?

[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: Buffman ]</p>