Dave

how can I counter to that arguement. He said that we all know what is right and wrong so a God had to have put that in us. What can I say to argue that?

LVLLN

What about the fact that "right and wrong" seems to vary incredibly among the population? What kind of shoddy god does that? Or how "right and wrong" seems to be heavily dependent on where one was raised? Did god decide to fool us by making it appear as if right and wrong are learned from the environment?

Which I suppose brings up another idea; the problem of evil. If conscience shows the existence of god, and we can have conscience while maintaining free will, why didn't god just give us all the same and good conscience? If everyone was altruistic, I could imagine that there would be no real "evil."

Brave Sir Robin

You could start with "Why, because you assert that's the case? It certainly doesn't follow from logic on its own merits at all. Even wild animals learn what is acceptable and not acceptable behaviour from their parents/pack leaders, etc. - or did God put the idea of right and wrong in them also?"

Or perhaps "No, I suspect it is because Santa Claus, who is good, has put the idea of good in us, and leprechauns, who are bad, have put the idea of bad in us."

Norseman

"No you see it is the Invisible Pink Unicorn (pbuh) who guides us in Her divine horniness. While some of us are misguided by the Purple Oyster of Doom, and tricked into evil, the rest of us live good and happy lives by the ways of the Invisible Pink Unicorn (pbuh). Can you refute such flawless logic?"

King Rat

We do? I was under the impression that psychopaths have no conscience. Surely they are included among "all." Even if a psychopaths idea of right and wrong is vastly different from a sane individual that would also refute your prof's "argument."

Godless Wonder

If some god implanted within us this conscience, surely he would have given us a conscience such that this god's own actions would not appear to us to be the gravest of transgressions. If one takes the existence of our conscience to be evidence of deity, then this is a strong argument against Christianity -- a strong argument that the Christian God is definitely not the deity which planted this conscience.

The core of Christianity, original sin, eternal puinshment and eternal reward for behavior which is to a large extent determined by accident of birth (e.g. if you grow up in Saudi Arabia, you're likely not to be Christian, through no fault of your own, also, American Indians, prior to 1492 with no exposure to the Bible, etc. various atrocities attributed to the Christian God in the old testament, etc.) all these things are in direct opposition to what our conscience tells us should be the case if it were planted within us by deity. Why would this deity give us a sense of what is "right" which so often is in direct conflict with that very deity's most celebrated actions and central dogmas of the religions whcih supposedly tell us what He wants? If the existence of conscience is your primary clue that some god exists, then the Christian God cannot be that god.

In any case, it is hardly necessary to posit deity as the reason for the existence of the conscience. I don't see why evolution of animals living in a a social environment could not readily produce such a thing.

Dave

would this be a good arguement:
people's thoughts on right on wrong change from generation to generation. like in the early 1900s people thought it was wrong for woman to wear like skirts that were even like below their knees. now people think it is alright for woman to wear skirts that go down to their knees. christians used to think that it was okay to have slaves. jesus didn't condemn slavery. now christians condemn slavery. their morals on it changed.

Enai

Yes, that might work, but I think the existance of psychopaths is more compelling. What's up with god? Consciences all sold out? Can't order more or create some?

Also, If you only argue that conscience changes over time, the easy counterargument is "Well, god adjusts the conscience handed out according to the changing human environment", makes god sound progressive.

Enai

Yahzi

Morality in animals has been observed. Vampire bats practice altruism, naked mole rats self-sacrifice, and dolphins make and keep promises.

Evolution is perfectly adequate as an explanation for why social animals maintain cooperative habits.

Aria

Yahzi is correct. Primates especially tend to live in rather peaceful groups. Let us not forget that Bonobo's practice what amounts to prostitution.