Marduk

I often get the impression from many posts that alot of humanists suffer from this quasi-religious worship of humanity and it’s technological achievements. The whole Shakespearean “what a piece of work is man, so infinite in reason blah blah blah” type crap that makes me laugh out loud, having lived through almost half of the most brutal and barbaric century in the history of the world.
Humans are animals, they crawled out of the same evolutionary soup as all the other critters and the brain they are so impressed with is a fluke of nature. Like George Bush “born on third base, thinks he hit a triple” .
If humanism is just a construct to have morality without God, and be nice to each other and our fellow creatures, fine. If it is an excuse to thump our chest and say “look at me I’m smarter than my dog! Where’s my cookie” or boast about how we are the greatest animal in the universe (in our own self-defined way) then it's really pathetic.

Nowhere357

False dichotomy. Humanism is neither of these things. It is a philosophy - an attempt to understand reality.

Why are you defining the term in such a non-standard way? Do you presume to tell humanists what their motives are, in contradiction to their own declarations? Why would you do such a thing?

Viti

Humanism as a philosophy simply fit my personal stance. I didn't say "I want to be a Humanist so I must follow this Manifesto", I heard the term Humanism, read about it and recognized that I already was one.

MollyMac

I've have twice seen the word 'worship' used inappropriately in this thread. Humanists don't worship anything. Secular humanism is simply an approach to life based on humanity, reason and experience and therefore rejecting any concept of a god or afterlife. The belief that this is the one life we have and that people have the ability to solve problems and work in co-operation to improve the quality of life for everyone is simply that - a belief, albeit an entirely rational one (as opposed to, say, believing that human problems could be solved by a bunch of rabbits if only we'd ask them nicely). It doesn't imply "elevating" humans above rabbits or any other forms of life nor does it imply a "quasi religous worship of humanity".

Why do we need humanism? We don't. We can reject humanist values and live lives purely motivated by self-interest and let future generations (rabbits included) suffer the consequences. Why not?

Infidelettante

quote: pariahSS
I will admit my last post to be on the verge of flame. I apologize for it. Never the less, I find it odd that pariahSS denigrates humanity but uses the technologies humanity creates. If pariahSS wants to be a Ludite more power to him but I will only respect his position if he never again appears on this forum to spout it.

I also admit to believing I am to be valued more than a roach. I wonder if pariahSS sets out food for his. I kill all I can find. When the day comes that roaches appear on this forum to defend their existence I will stop killing them, though I doubt very much that I ever loose the urge to do so.

JV

pariah

That makes no sense. I see no reason to elevate humans just because they are human...why shouldn't I use its technologies?

Marduk

“That makes no sense. I see no reason to elevate humans just because they are human...why shouldn't I use its technologies?”

Exactly. I don’t understand why observing the fact that humans have no more significance to the universe than field mice, other than to themselves, has anything to do with not being able to play with our toys.

Marduk

“False dichotomy. Humanism is neither of these things. It is a philosophy - an attempt to understand reality.

Why are you defining the term in such a non-standard way? Do you presume to tell humanists what their motives are, in contradiction to their own declarations? Why would you do such a thing?”

Because I’m a grumpy old man!
Actually I only casually glanced at the document which I found non-offensive really. I was reacting more to posts by what I assumed were humanists, maybe they weren’t humanists at all, I don’t know. (not just in this thread but similar posts over the years such ‘are humans better than X’ or ‘aren’t we just special’ etc.
A casual glance at history shows humans to be the most violent, destructive beast in the woods.
I don’t see what there is to crow about IMHO. Just being a crab, nevermind.

Elvithriel

Care to guess why?

Nowhere357

Does humanism claim that humans are more significant to the universe than anything else? Can you support this?

If you are right, and humanism makes that claim, then I will reject humanism as default. Afaik, the universe doesn't make value judgements.

Not much of an argument, and yet completely bombproof!

Yes yes yes. All the more reason to concentrate on nurturing our moral wisdom, imo. We have a looong way to go.

I understand this. Our pluses simply do not erase our minuses, so we should remain humble as we grow.

But too much of anything can be bad, I think, even humbleness. Some pride in humanity is warranted I am sure.

I reject this. Honest and thoughtful opinions are always welcome here.