Freethought & Rationalism Archive

pariah · 06-09-2003, 02:04 PM

To me, it seems to deify humanity.

From version III of the humanist manifesto:

Quote:

We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity...

Why does each human have inherent worth? Why does a human have more *inherent* worth than say a cockroach? It doesn't, unless of course you elevate humanity. Inherent worth does not exist to begin with, worth is an abstract quality created by society.

Do I just misunderstand it, or does it actually elevate humans?

Spaz · 06-09-2003, 02:09 PM

Well the way I understand it is that humans of course don't have inherent worth, but we should treat them as if they do. Just to treat other people well I guess, because we're all the same? Hehe, I guess that's it.

Biff the unclean · 06-09-2003, 02:12 PM

So you would prefer to treat people as you do cockroach.

If you bring up children telling them we are decended from a pile of dust in the Garden of Eden they will treat people like dirt.

pariah · 06-09-2003, 02:13 PM

That quote is of course not the only thing I am basing my decision off of

.

Faith in the human race? I have none...just as I have no faith in the race of apes. All of the humanists that I have met and talked to seem to elevate humans above other animals. They seem to worship humans ability to think.

Really, it is like a religion without anything supernatural.

It's not that I'm particularly against it, I just see no reason for it.

pariah · 06-09-2003, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
So you would prefer to treat people as you do cockroach.

If you bring up children telling them we are decended from a pile of dust in the Garden of Eden they will treat people like dirt.

No, my argument was against *inherent* rights. I believe that society has created morals and rights for its benefit. When one behaves morally, it is likely that others will behave morally towards him. This is surely a benefit, and humans wish to prosper. Why? I would say instinct alone.

Infidelettante · 06-09-2003, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pariahSS
That quote is of course not the only thing I am basing my decision off of .

Faith in the human race? I have none...just as I have no faith in the race of apes. All of the humanists that I have met and talked to seem to elevate humans above other animals. They seem to worship humans ability to think.

Really, it is like a religion without anything supernatural.

It's not that I'm particularly against it, I just see no reason for it.

Your path is clear pariahSS. Quit all humanity has offered you. Start with your computer and save us all the s**t.

Viti · 06-09-2003, 02:26 PM

"If abuses are destroyed, we must destroy them. If slaves are freed, we must free them. If new truths are discovered, we must discover them. If the naked are clothed; if the hungry are fed; if justice is done; if labor is rewarded; if superstition is driven from the mind; if the defenseless are protected and if the right finally triumphs, all must be the work of people. The grand victories of the future must be won by humanity, and by humanity alone." Robert Ingersoll

I look at it this way...there isn't any deity to do it, so we have to do it...that is the heart of my Humanism. I don't agree with everything the Manifesto says...it isn't meant to be dogmatic.

If you disagree with Humanist concepts, don't be a Humanist ::shrug::

Bill Snedden · 06-09-2003, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyShea
I look at it this way...there isn't any deity to do it, so we have to do it...that is the heart of my Humanism.

Bravo, bravo, I say! Humanism in one sentence!

Viti · 06-09-2003, 02:33 PM

Also you left part out...here is the whole section (emphasis mine)

Quote:

Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.

I don't think that's deifying humans so much as "starting at home"

http://www.americanhumanist.org/3/Hu...spirations.htm

Radcliffe Emerson · 06-09-2003, 02:39 PM

In my opinion, ethics and morals are grounded in the fact all humans are on this planet in the same boat, so to speak, and we can make it work better if we treat everyone on the globe with respect.
So humanism will always make far more sense to me than religion, especially Christianity, which to me is the worst religion on the planet.
Christianity is a 'god' holding threats over humans trying to force them to do things.

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06-09-2003, 02:09 PM	#2
Spaz Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: 6th Circle of Hell Posts: 1,093	Well the way I understand it is that humans of course don't have inherent worth, but we should treat them as if they do. Just to treat other people well I guess, because we're all the same? Hehe, I guess that's it.

06-09-2003, 02:12 PM	#3
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	So you would prefer to treat people as you do cockroach. If you bring up children telling them we are decended from a pile of dust in the Garden of Eden they will treat people like dirt.

06-09-2003, 02:13 PM	#4
pariah Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: الرياض Posts: 6,456	That quote is of course not the only thing I am basing my decision off of . Faith in the human race? I have none...just as I have no faith in the race of apes. All of the humanists that I have met and talked to seem to elevate humans above other animals. They seem to worship humans ability to think. Really, it is like a religion without anything supernatural. It's not that I'm particularly against it, I just see no reason for it.

06-09-2003, 02:26 PM	#7
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	"If abuses are destroyed, we must destroy them. If slaves are freed, we must free them. If new truths are discovered, we must discover them. If the naked are clothed; if the hungry are fed; if justice is done; if labor is rewarded; if superstition is driven from the mind; if the defenseless are protected and if the right finally triumphs, all must be the work of people. The grand victories of the future must be won by humanity, and by humanity alone." Robert Ingersoll I look at it this way...there isn't any deity to do it, so we have to do it...that is the heart of my Humanism. I don't agree with everything the Manifesto says...it isn't meant to be dogmatic. If you disagree with Humanist concepts, don't be a Humanist ::shrug::

06-09-2003, 02:39 PM	#10
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	In my opinion, ethics and morals are grounded in the fact all humans are on this planet in the same boat, so to speak, and we can make it work better if we treat everyone on the globe with respect. So humanism will always make far more sense to me than religion, especially Christianity, which to me is the worst religion on the planet. Christianity is a 'god' holding threats over humans trying to force them to do things.

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