RyanS2

I remember reading something on here about Jesus walking in the wrong direction, I think to Galilee, which has him going something like 70 miles instead of 40, and going that 70 miles in the wrong direction. It was used as a piece of evidence against the eyewitness reliability of the Gospels, and as relating that certain Gospel writers were from certain areas, and may have never even visited the areas they write about.

Anyone have any clue what I'm talking about or have I fudged it up too badly?

cloudyphiz

i think this is covered on steven carr's page.

<a href="http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/christ.htm" target="_blank">you can find it here</a>

click on the link that says
The Gospels - Eyewitness Records? (1) or (2)

-gary

leonarde

It is possible that what the OP is referring to is
instances in which Jesus and/or his disciples went
from Judea to Galilee or vice versa and in order
to avoid the intervening territory of Samaria, crossed the Jordan River and took a circuitous route. If my memory of this (it's been years since
I read about it) is accurate then it would indicate a general knowledge, not just of the geography but of the behaviour of devout Jews trying to avoid the religious "contagion" by rubbing shoulders with Samaritans in the 1st Century....

Cheers!

K

leonarde:

It's nice that our benevolent lord would avoid Samaria to prevent acquiring the contageon of these lesser people. It's great when apologetics is force to clear up a discrepancy by basically saying that Christ was an asshole.

Grumpy

Was this on the same trip where Jesus healed a blind man outside of Jericho, both coming and going (Luke 18:35 vs. Mark 10:46)?

Yuri Kuchinsky

Ryan,

Here's something by the way of a general reference.

[quote]

The Problem of Markan Geography

<a href="http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/rfset4.htm" target="_blank">http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/rfset4.htm</a>

Scholars have long noted that Mark does not seem to understand Galilean geography, even if he is familiar with place names. Howard C. Kee, Community of the New Age, p.102-103, offers a good capsule discussion of this problem, and he believes that the Markan community was located in a non-urban area of Syria.

[end quote]

And here's one such example that I've recently come across.

In Mark 6:45, Jesus commands his disciples to get into a boat, and to go to "the other side" of Lake Galilee to Bethsaida. In the context of this whole story, the departure would clearly be from the west/northwest of the lake.

Then Mark 6:53 reports that they "crossed over" -- but actually it looks like they arrived at the very same side from which they departed... Because the Plain of Genessaret is still on the NW corner of the lake!

Indeed, one can see this today in visual form in Fr. Bargil Pixner's map of Galilee as Jesus knew it (_With Jesus Through Galilee_, by Bargil Pixner, Liturgical Press, 1992). It is a bit humorous to see Jesus and the disciples represented doing a "U-turn" in the middle of the lake. But Pixner is right; that is what Mark portrays.

IMO, the explanation for this discrepancy is not really all that difficult to find; the discrepancy seems to have been brought about by later editing, that seems to have been rather sloppy. But, of course, in order to accept this, one also needs to be open to Mark -- the way we see it now -- not being the earliest gospel.

All the best,

Yuri.

RyanS2

Thanks to Yuri and all. I found another reference:

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/markauthor.html" target="_blank">www.geocities.com/paulntobin/markauthor.html</a>

Interesting point about the lake, if I'm not mistaken, Porphyry also made a similar criticism about it.

leonarde

Posted by K: I don't know where I read about that assertion (it has been years )so I
couldn't say that the source was a "apologist" sort, it was simply someone writing about the significance of "crossing the Jordan" (ie going East) on a North-to-South (ie Galilee to Judea)or South-to-North trip.
The contagion I was speaking of was a religious one: the Samaritans were, I take it, largely looked upon as religious sellouts: people whose
Judaism had been watered down by being assimilated with non-Jewish neighbors. Even to this day in the
US, this is a problem: only the most clanish and
conservative Jews (ie ones who look different and
live in Jewish enclaves) have a high probability of maintaining a specifically Jewish identity.
I would never hazard to make snap judgements about
such people: they are remaining true to their cultural/religious tradition and doing so in an honest way.
It is against the above backdrop that the Parable
of the Good Samaritan and Jesus' conversation with
the Samaritan woman at the well take on a special
significance, a significance which would be impossible were 1st Century Jews rabid assimilationists.....

Cheers!

K

leonarde:

That's what I was trying to point out. Why would Jesus preach love for neighbors and enemies and yet go out of his way to avoid the Samaritans because of a fear that their religious ideas might be "contagious"?

Geoff Hudson

Yuri,

There was an ancient Jewish sport of walking across water. I have been trying it with no success, although some politians seem to manage it.

You can also go 'across' a mountain 'to the other side' of it, something like this:

Immediately John made his disciples go on ahead of him to the other side of the mountain while he dismissed the crowd. After leaving them, he went up on the mountainside. When evening came, the disciples were in the middle of their journey, and he was alone on the top of the mountain. He saw the disciples toiling to pitch their tent, because the wind was against them. About the fourth watch of the night he went to them. He almost missed them, but when they saw him walking on the mountain, they cried out to him, because they all saw him. Immediately he spoke to them and said, “It is I”. Then he climbed up into the tent with them, and the wind ceased.

You can also 'get into a tent' unless it needs 'mending' like a fisherman's
net.

Geoff