Freethought & Rationalism Archive

K · 09-01-2002, 10:07 AM

Amos:

So omnibenevolence doesn't exist in heaven? That doesn't sound very OMNI to me.

09-01-2002, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by K:
Amos:

So omnibenevolence doesn't exist in heaven? That doesn't sound very OMNI to me.

Do you really think that the supernatural exist in nature?

K · 09-01-2002, 02:32 PM

Amos:

I don't believe the supernatural exists anywhere.

09-01-2002, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by K:
Amos:

I don't believe the supernatural exists anywhere.

So then why should omnibenevolence exist in heaven?

K · 09-01-2002, 07:00 PM

I'm not the one who is asserting the following:

1. There is an omnipotent and omnibenevolent god.

2. That omnipotent and omnibenevolent god allows all the suffering on earth to avoid interfering with our free will.

3. There is free will without suffering in heaven.

These ideas are fundamentally incompatible with each other. I wanted to see if any theists who believe in heaven and a resonable facsimile of the Christian god have a veiw of heaven that is consistent with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god who is forced to allow suffering on earth.

09-01-2002, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by K:
I'm not the one who is asserting the following:

1. There is an omnipotent and omnibenevolent god.

2. That omnipotent and omnibenevolent god allows all the suffering on earth to avoid interfering with our free will.

3. There is free will without suffering in heaven.

These ideas are fundamentally incompatible with each other. I wanted to see if any theists who believe in heaven and a resonable facsimile of the Christian god have a veiw of heaven that is consistent with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god who is forced to allow suffering on earth.

But I just explained that above.

Just compare heaven with water and evil with land and you will see that it makes more sense. You will also know that water is present in land but land is not present in water nor is water present in water. Land can produce plants out of its own free will and is watered by the omnipresence of water.

Suffering is the result of unstructured space in our own mind and that is our own problem. The unstructured space is needed to tell God when to water his flowers and how to best adapt them in a compettitive environment.

Hope it helps.

K · 09-01-2002, 09:23 PM

Amos:

I know what each of the words you used means. But the way they were strung together looks like gibberish to me.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not a troll. Could you please list the fundamental tenets of your beliefs in as simple a form as possible? Without an idea where you're coming from, I really don't think I have a prayer of communicating with you.

dostf · 09-02-2002, 06:16 AM

Heaven and Hell were concepts used to influence and control peoples behaviour at a time when humans were particularly barbaric.
These concepts are outdated, simplistic, and against reason...

Be seeing you...

09-02-2002, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by K:
Amos:

I know what each of the words you used means. But the way they were strung together looks like gibberish to me.

Is it maybe the case that they are like gibberish to you because they contradict your preconceived ideas?

K · 09-02-2002, 08:55 AM

That may be. That's why I asked you to list your beliefs. Without a common reference point, communication is impossible.

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09-01-2002, 10:07 AM	#21
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	Amos: So omnibenevolence doesn't exist in heaven? That doesn't sound very OMNI to me.

09-01-2002, 02:32 PM	#23
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	Amos: I don't believe the supernatural exists anywhere.

09-01-2002, 07:00 PM	#25
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	I'm not the one who is asserting the following: 1. There is an omnipotent and omnibenevolent god. 2. That omnipotent and omnibenevolent god allows all the suffering on earth to avoid interfering with our free will. 3. There is free will without suffering in heaven. These ideas are fundamentally incompatible with each other. I wanted to see if any theists who believe in heaven and a resonable facsimile of the Christian god have a veiw of heaven that is consistent with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god who is forced to allow suffering on earth.

09-01-2002, 09:23 PM	#27
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	Amos: I know what each of the words you used means. But the way they were strung together looks like gibberish to me. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not a troll. Could you please list the fundamental tenets of your beliefs in as simple a form as possible? Without an idea where you're coming from, I really don't think I have a prayer of communicating with you.

09-02-2002, 06:16 AM	#28
dostf Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto canada Posts: 498	Heaven and Hell were concepts used to influence and control peoples behaviour at a time when humans were particularly barbaric. These concepts are outdated, simplistic, and against reason... Be seeing you...

09-02-2002, 08:55 AM	#30
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	That may be. That's why I asked you to list your beliefs. Without a common reference point, communication is impossible.

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