Freethought & Rationalism Archive

RevDahlia · 08-08-2003, 08:02 PM

I was supposed to be a panelist on a local talk show about abstinence awhile back, but the show called in a surplus of slutty young people so I was relegated to being an audience plant. Too bad -- the abstinence-advocate guest was a harridan named Pam something who shrieked on and on about how EVERYONE has HPV and IT WILL KILL YOU STONE DEAD. Unfortunately, I was not called, although I did come up with a great argument.

I would have said, "So Pam, let's say your goal is achieved, and the only people having sex will be people who remain virgins till marriage, with everyone else abstaining owing to being ticking bio-time bombs. Soooo... given that the number of people who remain virgins till marriage and marry virgin partners is very very small, what you'll get is a plummeting birthrate, and a crisis of epic proportions in a few years when we can't muster up the workforce to run the country and all the prior sluts hit the nursing homes. THEN WHERE WILL YOU BE?"

It's a stupid argument, but then extremism in general is stupid, particularly when it comes to dictating other people's private behavior.

lpetrich · 08-09-2003, 12:17 AM

Here are some nice links on sexuality:

http://www.allaboutsex.org
http://www.positive.org
http://www.sexed.org
http://www.sexuality.org
http://www.siecus.org

And as I've pointed out earlier, look what happened to Dr. Joycelyn Elders when she suggested that sex-education classes ought to give serious consideration to masturbation. All the "liberals" completely wimped out and Clinton himself whimpered submissively at the right-wingers' outcry.

And we may expand on that to discuss and encourage various forms of nonpenetrative sex as "starter" and "practice" acts and so forth -- I interpret "sex act" rather broadly and not with Clintonian narrowness.

sight/mind · 08-09-2003, 09:34 AM

lpetrich: don't forget http://www.scarleteen.com It's aimed at teens (obviously), and is easy-to-understand.

brighid: I'm glad that you're educating your kids. When you mentioned your son was 9, I remembered a friend of mine who had intercourse at 8 or 9 (as consensual as it could be for a 9-year-old, with a girl his age), so I'm glad you're getting an early start on it. Glad to know that some parents are this responsible.

I've had to deal with abstinence-only until grade 9, when my teacher mentioned all birth control methods she could think of, and how good masturbation is for people to explore and so on and so forth. Luckily, our abs-only program didn't contain too many blatant lies, only blatant product plugs (Buy tampax, now now now to contain your shameful shameful flow!)

Toto · 08-11-2003, 12:05 AM

Rep Henry Waxman (D., Cal) has set up a webpage detailing the Bush administration's political interference in science. Abstinence education is exhibit one:

Politics and Science: Abstinence Education

Quote:

Performance Measures

Over the past three years, Congress has appropriated over $100 million in grants to organizations that sponsor abstinence-only education. In November 2000, under the Clinton Administration, HHS developed meaningful, scientifically sound outcome measures to assess whether these programs achieved their intended purposes, including the �proportion of program participants who have engaged in sexual intercourse� and the birth rate of female program participants.[4]

In late 2001, however, the Bush Administration dropped these measures and replaced them with a set of standards that does not include any real outcomes. Rather than tracking pregnancy or sexual activity, these measures assess attendance and the attitudes of teens at the end of the education program, including the �proportion of participants who indicate understanding of the social, psychological, and health gains to be realized by abstaining from premarital sexual activity.�[5]

Such standards are not scientifically valid. A 2001 review of scientific evidence concluded that �adolescents� sexual beliefs, attitudes, and even intentions are . . . weak proxies for actual behaviors.�[6] That is, even if teens pledge to remain abstinent, they may not actually do so. According to a major HHS-funded report, two �hallmarks of good evaluation� in programs designed to reduce teen pregnancy rates are evaluations that �[m]easure behaviors, not just attitudes and beliefs� and �[c]onduct long-term follow-up (of at least one year).�[7] However, the Bush Administration�s standards for measuring the success of abstinence-only programs contain no reports or assessments of actual behavior or health outcomes and do not require any minimum followup period.

The result is that the performance measures appear constructed to produce the appearance that scientific evidence supports abstinence-only programs when, in fact, the best evidence does not.

brighid · 08-11-2003, 06:21 AM

Quote:

brighid: I'm glad that you're educating your kids. When you mentioned your son was 9, I remembered a friend of mine who had intercourse at 8 or 9 (as consensual as it could be for a 9-year-old, with a girl his age), so I'm glad you're getting an early start on it. Glad to know that some parents are this responsible.

Thank you. Frankly it scares me that children that young are having sexual intercourse. I also feel that my son will reach a certain age where he might not want to listen to what his mother (or father) has to say about sex, pregnancy, etc.

I do my best to be honest when he asks questions, such as how are babies made, etc. I was a single parent and so we had opportunity to discuss unwed pregnancy and all that entailed.

I simply don't trust the schools to educate my child as I would want him to be about these things. I grew up with a pretty screwed up sense of sexuality, my body, etc. I always knew "what" I am, but I just didn't know how everything worked. That is pretty sad if you ask me. I don't want any of my children having that negative experience.

Brighid

08-11-2003, 09:34 AM

I think this report from the Alan Guttmacher Institute is interesting:

Quote:

Undermining Condom Use in the Name of Preventing Cervical Cancer?

Death rates from cervical cancer remain high in developing countries because women lack access to Pap tests and other effective screening programs, not because of high rates of human papillomavirus (HPV), certain strains of which may lead to cervical cancer. HPV is extremely common worldwide, yet in countries where women receive timely screening and treatment, rates of cervical cancer are low.

Nevertheless, the new U.S. global AIDS law requires an analysis of HPV prevalence and a study of the impact of condom use on the spread of HPV in Sub-Saharan Africa, ostensibly in order to reduce deaths from cervical cancer. According to "HPV in the United States and Developing Nations: A Problem of Public Health or Politics?" the experience of the United States and other developed countries suggests that the law's focus on HPV prevalence is misplaced, and will serve only to undermine confidence in condoms without doing anything to bring poor women the services they need to combat cervical cancer.
See http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/gr060304.html

Also in the August issue of The Guttmacher Report on Public Policy:

"U.S. AIDS Policy: Priority On Treatment, Conservatives' Approach to Prevention" addresses the shift in U.S. spending on global HIV/AIDS.

In a departure from previous policies, the majority of new funding is focused on the care and treatment of people living with HIV/AIDS, rather than on the prevention of new infections.
See http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/gr060301.html

'Twas ever thus.

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08-08-2003, 08:02 PM	#51
RevDahlia Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 4,930	I was supposed to be a panelist on a local talk show about abstinence awhile back, but the show called in a surplus of slutty young people so I was relegated to being an audience plant. Too bad -- the abstinence-advocate guest was a harridan named Pam something who shrieked on and on about how EVERYONE has HPV and IT WILL KILL YOU STONE DEAD. Unfortunately, I was not called, although I did come up with a great argument. I would have said, "So Pam, let's say your goal is achieved, and the only people having sex will be people who remain virgins till marriage, with everyone else abstaining owing to being ticking bio-time bombs. Soooo... given that the number of people who remain virgins till marriage and marry virgin partners is very very small, what you'll get is a plummeting birthrate, and a crisis of epic proportions in a few years when we can't muster up the workforce to run the country and all the prior sluts hit the nursing homes. THEN WHERE WILL YOU BE?" It's a stupid argument, but then extremism in general is stupid, particularly when it comes to dictating other people's private behavior.

08-09-2003, 12:17 AM	#52
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Here are some nice links on sexuality: http://www.allaboutsex.org http://www.positive.org http://www.sexed.org http://www.sexuality.org http://www.siecus.org And as I've pointed out earlier, look what happened to Dr. Joycelyn Elders when she suggested that sex-education classes ought to give serious consideration to masturbation. All the "liberals" completely wimped out and Clinton himself whimpered submissively at the right-wingers' outcry. And we may expand on that to discuss and encourage various forms of nonpenetrative sex as "starter" and "practice" acts and so forth -- I interpret "sex act" rather broadly and not with Clintonian narrowness.

08-09-2003, 09:34 AM	#53
sight/mind Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 55	lpetrich: don't forget http://www.scarleteen.com It's aimed at teens (obviously), and is easy-to-understand. brighid: I'm glad that you're educating your kids. When you mentioned your son was 9, I remembered a friend of mine who had intercourse at 8 or 9 (as consensual as it could be for a 9-year-old, with a girl his age), so I'm glad you're getting an early start on it. Glad to know that some parents are this responsible. I've had to deal with abstinence-only until grade 9, when my teacher mentioned all birth control methods she could think of, and how good masturbation is for people to explore and so on and so forth. Luckily, our abs-only program didn't contain too many blatant lies, only blatant product plugs (Buy tampax, now now now to contain your shameful shameful flow!)

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