diana

Also, you're still reasoning backwards. Until you can explain to me in some meaningful, coherent way how anything can be "outside of logic and existence," it remains--to me--a nonsense concept.

I accept your premise that we exist within a STC. I reject your hypothetical condition that God would therefore exist outside of it in order to create it as nonsensical.

The only rational explanation I have for the whole idea is this: the concept of God was created by men to explain their existence, the unknown, etc. "God" became more powerful over time, until he was the embodiment of what any deep thinker would recognize as impossible concepts. The idea of God somehow existing outside of existence itself was conceived as an explanation for this difficulty.

If anybody walked up to me in real life and earnestly and honestly tried to convince me that something existed outside of existence itself, and tried to use logic to reason that something must somehow be illogical, I'd edge away toward the door.

In short, I'd be convinced they were mental.

Until you demonstrate the ultimate logic in your hypothetical conditions, they remain meaningless to me.

This is why I'm not tripping over myself to leap into the thread you linked to. I'd rather expend my energy and brainpower for something that's remotely useful to me, such as figuring out how to clean the grout from behind my toilet.

d

HelenM

So...why did you become a moderator here?

(Just kidding! )

Helen

Hawkingfan

Hi diana,

Sorry about what I said before. I didn't know you agreed with me (I'm an idiot).

Above, you put it much better than myself. I always enjoy reading your posts.

Later.

diana

Hawkingfan,

Maybe I'm the idiot, because I didn't realize you were disagreeing. I assumed you were using humor to solidify the point.

I enjoy your posts as well (and thanks for the compliment).

d

Amos

Time and space are illusions. They have no existence in time nor space and therefore have no continuum. God, on the other hand, is not part of time and space and therefore exists as the essence of that which exists in time and space. Since all that which exists in time and space is temporal God is not part of the temporal but is the essence of the temporal and as it moves through the ages and in space so is God the leading edge of the which moves in time and space.