Proxima Centauri

The British BBC has recently broadcast a programme suggesting, among other things, that Mary may have been raped by a Roman soldier called Panthe. Here's several links giving details about the programme.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/alert/spotlight...219_mary.shtml

http://media.guardian.co.uk/bbc/stor...864950,00.html

http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...860776,00.html

So how was Jesus conceived then? Was it Parthenogenisis, (virigin birth)? Or was it Panthenogenisis(genisis by Panthe)? We will probably never know for sure.
The story of Mary as rape victim apparently originates from the 2nd century of the Christian Era. The virgin birth story originates earlier but is less plausible. The BBC programme also speculated that Jesus may have been conceived unspectacularly with the father being Joseph. There were any number of men in Judea at the time who were biologically capable of fathering a child.
Back to the terrible Panthe! Christians can always argue that the story could have been made up by opponents of Christianity.
Just suppost it was true. How would it have affected the unfortunate boy born from this act of violence?
Perhaps his Mother told him a story about an Angel and an Annunciation to cover up the truth. Perhaps his Mother told him the truth. Either way the boy might have known or sensed that by existing he caused his Mother great suffering.
He could have grown up to be self destructive. He could have grown up to be the type of man who takes unecessary risks and gets himself crucified.
Whatever we think of Jesus lets not forget to show the proper level of respect for Panthe, his possible father . The proper level of respect for a rapist is total contempt.
It seems I got the name wrong. The alleged Roman soldier was Anhidrus or Panthera.

Amos

The birth of Christ was the rebirth of Joseph unto whom Christ-child was born. It is a metaphysical event which must be incipient from God via Gabriel into the womb of Mary, who was therefore the womb-of-man taken from the image of God (Mary was all woman and not human and thus without sin). Hence, the visitation to Mary (no dream) was the dream of Joseph in the conscious mind.

braces_for_impact

Thank You Amos for an almost unending supply of smiles when I read your posts.

lpetrich

That Roman soldier's name is Panthera, sometimes given as Pantera or Pandira. That theory is most likely a sarcastic comment about Jesus Christ's alleged virgin birth (parthenos in Greek).

Animesh

A few years ago, a Jewish friend of mine told me about a story about how Mary was raped by a Greek soldier (apparently, according to this story, the story of Jesus took place during a Greek occupation, not Roman).

Vinnie

Mary was raped = comment not supported by any credible evidence. Personally, I am intrigued by Chilton's view of Jesus as a mamzer.

Vinnie

Proxima Centauri

The Roman Catholic Bishop of Portsmouth has been complaining loudly about the programme which he calls offensive. Here's a good link.

http://www.dickstaub.com/links_view.php?record_id=1822

Proxima Centauri

Is there anycredible evidence that Jesus was conceived miraculously?
I have no idea if Mary consented or not. It is none the less much more plausible to assume that he was conceived the same way as other human beings are conceived.

Apikorus

Here's another angle on the virgin birth myth:

Traditionally, Jewish marriage was a two-stage process. You can read about it here. The first stage is known as qiddushin, or betrothal. The second is nisuin, the completion of the marriage. Today these are typically concluded during a single ceremony, but in ancient times there was usually a separation of a year between the two events. It is natural to suspect that the reason for this was to establish that the bride was not pregnant at the time of the qiddushin. (Between the qiddushin and the nisuin, the couple is legally married, but no connubial relations take place, and the couple live apart.)

So one plausible, although speculative and certainly not very nice possibility, is to suggest that Jesus' mother Mary was pregnant at the time of her qiddushin. Jesus was born prior to the nisuin, which elicited justifiable suspicion from Joseph. Mary's response: "I swear I'm a virgin! It is the work of Yahweh!" Joseph, being timid and credulous...

Vinnie

Not according to this observer.

Like i said, no evidence.

The basics of Chilton's reconstruction:

Mary was probably around 13 or so and had sex with and married Joseph. During the pledge they may have had sex before the official marriage took place. This was broadly tolerated in that culture but given that Joseph was from an outside community, Mary had no proof of who her babies father was. Thus Jesus was an israelite of suspect paternity. He was excluded from the synagogue in his hometown, and faced alienation and social ostracization during his life.

I think a lot of this could all add a new spin on 'open commensiality" and other such things but I wish Chilton would have discussed his use of Mishnah traditions and his reconstruction of early fiurst century Judaism a little more.

Though Jesus being viewed as a mamzer-type person certainly could shed light on what happened when he tried to teach in the synagogue in his hometown. He faces immense hostility and Luke says they tried to kill him! Though look presents it as if it was a routine it is obvious from the accounts and their reaction that it was not.

But that is hardly support for the late second century sarcasm against the alleged virgin birth that "Mary was raped by a Roman soldier and taken under the wing of Joseph". What is more likely, that Mary was raped and taken under Joseph's wing or that Joseph had sex with Mary? Though neither view may have any kind of scientific proof in its favor I think a sober historical understanding of the facts would favor one over the other.

Vinnie