SecularFuture

5 Points against Religious Theism
--- by ME (REVISED)


The existence of a god can not be tested by science, seen by the naked eye, nor detected by electronic devices. Therefore, “God” must be a supernatural being if he/she/it is believed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.

Definitions for the word ‘supernatural’:
- of or relating to existence outside the natural world
- attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces
- of or relating to a deity
- of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; the miraculous

Definitions for the word ‘natural’:
- present in or produced by nature
- of, relating to, or concerning nature
- conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature
- not acquired; inherent

1) What theists interpret as being acts of divine intervention could be the acts of natural phenomenon. To know, without doubt or “blind religious-faith”, if something is more than a natural phenomenon, you would need to understand the nature of all natural phenomenon. Only then will you have reason to rule out all natural explanations, and rule in a super-natural one.

2) Unlike non-religious history books, many religious scriptures include stories about supernatural worlds and events that can only be believed and not tested. Freethinkers dismiss religious scripture because it is subjective and inconsistent when compared to the objective and consistent nature of the natural world. Unlike religious scripture, non-religious history can be accepted though “reasoned-faith”, a kind of faith that is supported by the five senses, reason, and/or supporting evidence.

3) Anyone with a little spare time and creative writing ability could have written religious scripture. A god is not the only being capable of inspiring or writing books.

4) If there are still other possible explanations for what theists interpret as being a violation of a natural law, there is still room for doubt and further investigation. And where there is room for further investigation, there is no absolute knowledge or absolute truth. Untested and personal interpretations of so-called supernatural events could be nothing more than natural phenomenon.

5) Any philosophy that promotes the use of magical thinking over the use of critical thinking is a hindrance to scientific and intellectual accomplishment. Progress toward objective solutions can not be made through the promotion of subjective thinking alone.

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And I'd like to take some time out to thank The Academy, and all those who helped me organize this piece. You know who you are!

Volker.Doormann

Truth or love, math, logic, harmony, justice, contradictional free recognizable order of nature, laws of music, consciousness about all this and the opposite actions from idle person to hurt all this, what is, and to discredit, what is, and to ignore all this, what is. What is this? Supernatural? Omnipotent? Omniscient? Omnipresent?

Each one is part of god, but no one do know this. No one do know where he comes from prior to his birth and why he is placed in this dark place called social world, which the ancient people have called the underworld and the Jews have called it Egypt because of its terrible laws and of its terrible beings, but each one is able to reject all that except his own ego, that seems to be omnipotent, but it is only a temporary collection of eternal atoms ...

AJ113

What the....?
Wow that's deep man. Really deep. Or shallow. Or bollocks.

Biff the unclean

Oh dear...well...ummm...you see when a man and a woman love each other very much they want to show it in a special way...no, wait...when a bee enters a flower to get pollen he...this is going to take awhile. I can't believe your father didn't give you this talk. Now about that dark place...

SecularFuture

Volker.Doormann
How do you know this, and why do you believe this?

Volker.Doormann

I have also written: "Truth or love, math, logic, harmony, justice, contradictional free recognizable order of nature, laws of music, consciousness about all this and the opposite actions from idle person to hurt all this, what is, and to discredit, what is, and to ignore all this, what is. What is this? Supernatural? Omnipotent? Omniscient? Omnipresent?"

To ask means to acknowledge an order. It doesn't mean to acknowledge a disorder or a chaos. An order can only be distinguished from a disorder by a knowledge about that an order exist. If there would no knowledge, there would no asking for an order. The process of the re_cognition is only possible if the asker has a hidden cognition as reference, which can decide about order or disorder. The process of asking and searching for an order respecting such reference is not a personal belief, it is a reality in each being, that is asking and searching. To ask not, but to transfer dead ideas is to follow a belief. The main thing, that is in question is truth. The questioner takes his reference from the knowledge about an order and do discriminate order from disorder. In the same manner a being is able to recognize love, math, logic, harmony, justice or contradictions. Not always in perfection, but always in a proper state of perfection as reality.

I have asked you, whether this named things as truth, love, math, logic, harmony, justice or contradictions are supernatural, but you have given no answer. This means either that you do reject these things as not existent or you do respect this things as existent. However, if you are searching for an order you have no other reference as all beings have and this is the knowledge that truth has a greater state of order as an untruth and love has an greater state of harmony as a lack of love it has.

To search for truth and love is to search for god. God is an abstract term, with no meaning, but truth and love are attributes of that, what people call God. Truth and love are alocal and eternal. It differs not with time and is independent of a location or a nation. Truth and love is not to be traded, neither from religions - who have no interest in God - nor from governments. Only because all people in general have this as a permanent reference, they can decide between truth and untruth and between love and the lack of love immediately - without any education or holy books. Asking and acknowledge for truth is a form of worship of god. There are many beings searching truth and love, unaware that they are seeking god.

Volker

Primordial Groove

wtf are you talking about doorman? You seem like one of those freaky people walking down the street preaching hellfire and brimstone.

Human is what it is. H-U-M-A-N. What reality are you living in man?

As for the rest of your post, I am curious, are the aliens coming with Hale Bop again or will it be a different comet?

Volker.Doormann

No. Human is a 'religious' idea of the physical brain. Human is the physical egoism, that animals or plants are food only. Each being has a soul, that is searching as individual soul for light or understanding, warmth and freedom. Because this egoistic idea called humanism do ignore the spiritual laws of nature, it hardly can be a true answer to the reality of the spiritual nature. There will never be a justice in this physical world, because justice is not physical, it is spiritual. Justice is not to be made, justice is to be recognized only. It doesn't seem, that you have the attention, which is needed to recognize. You only have the power claim to suppress souls, which like to recognize truth and love for its own, not knowing where you come from prior to your birth.

Volker

emotional

Volker and Amos, masters of obfuscation...

If you have evidence, then where does faith come to it? Faith is really faith only when evidence is lacking or hidden.

Volker.Doormann

There is no need to judge on persons.

No one has evidence about immaterial 'things'. Evidence about immaterial things is only to be recognized by an individual that is able to recognize. Philosophical claims are senseless; there is nothing to claim, there is only a spiritual reality to understand and to distinguish from an unreality. I have written: "Truth or love, math, logic, harmony, justice, contradiction free recognizable order of nature, laws of music, consciousness about all this and the opposite actions from idle person to hurt all this, what is, and to discredit, what is, and to ignore all this, what is. What is this? Supernatural? Omnipotent? Omniscient? Omnipresent?" I have written:"To ask not, but to transfer dead ideas is to follow a belief."

That, what you do is i.) judge on persons ii.) unable to recognize truth, love, math, logic, harmony, justice, contradictions or the laws of music as reality, only able to transfer dead ideas about faith, and iii.) do claim, that there is nothing except faith, not knowing, that this claim kill your own absolute statement "Faith is really faith only when evidence is lacking or hidden", because no one is able to prove a faith scientifically as faith.

I think it is more intelligence needed to argue and prove that truth, love, math, logic, harmony, justice, contradictions or the laws of music are not part of nature, but a thing, I never ever have understood: 'Faith' . It is not necessary to declare, what is a sort of belief, it is necessary to recognize, what is real. Are you real? If yes, where do you know?

Volker