Hubble head

If anyone in the US has freedom, it�s the fake person called "big Multi-national Corporation�. Not all are bad, just those who have a sense of entitlement regarding their right to influence and exist under any means possible.

They have the freedom to donate gobs of money to their favorite sell out politicians for favorable legislation.

They have the freedom to put harmful products on the market and tell us its good.

Then they have right to lie about their products and services any way they see fit and weigh money lost from lawsuits and lawyers against profits. Then they have the right to get their most embarrassing moments sealed in court records far from public knowledge, usually the ones that proclaim they knew exactly what they were doing all along.

They have the freedom to monopolize their industries and centralize price fixing or media output.

They have the right to buy legislation that limits overtime for the hourly wage earner, the backbone of this country.

The more rights and freedoms they have, the less the actual person has.
:banghead:

southernhybrid

Often lately, I hear George W, and even some on this forum state that "freedom is America's greatest export", or worse: "They hate us for our freedom".

Does anyone really believe this? (Apart from those stating it, or course) To those who do, I would be interested in hearing exactly in which areas pertaining to freedom/human rights the USA leads the world, and also American freedom/human-rights initiatives predating similar initiatives in any other country, or at least significantly improved on any previous examples.

Imagine how frustrating it is to live under Bush rule and have to constantly listen to that propaganda. It's embarrassing but the good news is the results of a Harris pole released today puts Bush's rating down to 52%. One can only hope his ratings will be at least as low as his father's were before his defeat.

Most of us don't buy into "they hate us for our freedoms" bullshit, if that makes you feel any better. There are so many other reasons to hate us, after all.

Gunnaheave

Aswerer:

"I don't see how by forcing other countries to accept a democracy system or society, American government could be regarded as a 'champion of freedom'.
"

If this is intended as a response to my own post, then I would say it's a flase dichotomy. If it is not, then I would be inclined to agree with the claim itself.

Hayden

Those are all assumptions, but I get your point. Don't forget that many other countries fought alongside the USA, including in Vietnam. In most cases we were proud to count her among our allies.

However, that's not the point. Perhaps I didn't express myself properly in the OP: How are you more "free" than the citizens of any other first-world country? And if you're being attacked for your "freedom", why don't other countries suffer the same attacks?

If we're going to go into that, then the USA owes its existence to the French for their aid during the Revolutionary War, and to Spain for sending Columbus around the world, and so on ad infinitum. Being someone's historical ally doesn't mean you automatically follow them into any war they care to manufacture. Were the United States actually under attack from Iraq, do you think that Europe would stand idly by? The two situations are completely incomparable.

Iamthebeerking

Good Jebus! You people really run wild come the weekend don't you.
The U.S. IS by far the greatest symbol of freedom on this planet. Any statement to the contrary is childish blather.
It's not even worthy of debate.

"But dude, I can smoke hash in Amsterdam". Yeah bro, my old lady can get a free abortion in Denmark." "Come on man, in Switzerland they take care of their drug addicts". "Right on cats, in Sweden you can take like 6 weeks off just 'cause you want to".
"Raaaaad bro. I used to know this motherfucker from Holland who's whole family was in this like badass bobsled accident and like the government paid 'em like a million Hollandbucks to just kick it at home for the rest of their lives and shit... NO WAY! Yeah bro, WAY!" NOOOOOO! Yeaaaaaaah dude, I shit you not!"
"Dude, I hear like that America wants to like just wage war on those poor cats in Iraq... for like no good reason man. Yeah bro, it's so not cool man. Like they ain't doin' nothin' to us man. They're just out there chillin' in the sand, growing dates and spinnin' hash, man". I mean, come on bro, what have the Iraqi's ever done to you?
"Nothin' man. Like once in my poli sci class there was this dude from Lebannon or somethin' and that cat was like way trippy. He said there was like bombs and shit goin' off in his back yard and that those Jewish dudes were doin' it and shit. Fuckin' A man, that's hardcore shit bro."

TAKE ANOTHER HIT!

Mr. Superbad

Other countries have been targetted, and suffer the same attacks. The US is just the most notorious target.

If we are talking about OBL and his band of merry men, then you can find plenty of quotes about why they hate us, but what it comes down to is not being fanatical muslims and therefor Satan.

Danya

Sounds like Bubba's had too much beer.

Hayden

Why don't you see if you can back up your statements, just for fun? Otherwise, how does your post differ from so much "childish blather"?

Alternatively, try answering one of the questions posed above.

HR

Hayden

Perhaps, but plenty of other countries aren't fanatical Muslims, either.

Personally, I believe OBL uses the US as a target of convenience for the purposes of his own cult of personality. However, that's not what this thread is about!

Hayden (self-appointed moderator for this thread )

Answerer

Gunnaheave, I'm not replying to your post. So, don't worry.


I disagree for the Tawian issue, making a race(in this case Chinese) divided into two separate nations is not an act of freedom rather its an act of agression and ill-intention. I don't wish to see Chinese killing Chinese again in my lifetime and the American government can help by removing themselves from the region and the future affairs between China and Tawian.

As for the Tibetian case, it depends. If Tibetians lack the means to survive on their own, I don't see the need to give them independence while watching them being exploited by stronger, neighbour countries.