Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ronin · 05-22-2003, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Please tell me what your 'gathering' of what I said, has to do with what I actually said. I said (emphasis mine),

That you tried to imply some sort of miracle had occurred through your TV set via Pat Robertson to Yahweh and back down to your relative.

You've wiggled and wormed out of it...and based upon the examination of your claim by others appeared to have since spent some time re-evaluating your initial assertion.

To the benefit of rational thought and health of those wishing TV sets could really heal Hep-C.

Quote:

Not past tense...PRESENT tense. I never jumped up and screamed "Hallelujah" or did cartwheels or any of that. Perhaps I left a bit too much to the imagination when I said "You can figure out what I believe."

Yes...that is exactly the supernaturalists methodology.

It is my hope that you will have examined your use of this technique...and begin to see it in others of your dogma.

Quote:

In light of the recent conversation (AND in light of the fact that I requestioned my wife, and she now says that "she didn't know for sure if my aunt actually tested positive" - feel free to pick me apart if you like) - I NOW believe that while this obviously was no miracle, God was indeed watching out for her.

Again, there are far more pressing matters...one would think for an all-powerful deity to be doing...say, watching out for a thousand or so Algerians recently crushed in an earthquake...but, you go ahead with your vain, theistic assertions ~ no one is stopping you from that.

Quote:

(By the way, I find it interesting that in your post, you seem to feel that the 'God' you do not believe in was only around for the infliction of pain, and subsequently left. I would ask that you refrain from taking potshots at my beliefs. I am doing my best to have an honest conversation and jokes aren't helping.)

Muffinstuffer, you're beliefs are nonsensical and ludicrous, do not find offense in my simply pointing out the tenets you 'believe' in are contradictory.

You're belief is that there is an all-powerful and all-good God controlling, watching and manipulating nature...and I am here to show you how that belief is, in fact, irrational.

No offense to you...I am being honest.

Quote:

It would seem to me that you are doing nothing more than drawing attention to the events of the past day or two, and to my apparent unreliability as a witness due to my mistakes and my misrepresentation (although not deliberate, I'm sure you disagree) of the situation.

You made a deliberate representation of the situation to support a belief in the existence of a God that replies to the kneemail of His chosen sychophants...and have since done the right thing.

I laud for your re-assessment.

Quote:

If every discussion is going to contain some reference to just how reliable I am, or just how irrational I am, I don't see much of a point in discussing it. I screwed up and had it pointed out; I admitted it and apologized; I found out the TRUTH and reported that here. At least I had the honesty to do so. I would ask at the least that you respect that, and not continue to refer to things I can not change about the past.

I have no problem with that at all.

Muffinstuffer · 05-22-2003, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronin
I have no problem with that at all.

Good. In that case, let's move on from this. I would take the time to respond to this at length, but I'm so pissed off at the Georgia Department of Revenue that I don't have the time/patience/desire to defend my irrational/ludicrous/insert more adjectives beliefs.

One more thing. It would appear that you are absolutely convinced that, as you have noted many times, 'my handling of this situation is representative of my reliability'......and so on. If this remains the case, let me know, because I have no desire to discuss my beliefs with, or defend my beliefs against, a person or people with which I evidently have little to no credibility. As it is, my theological beliefs kind of slant the board against me anyways.

Ronin · 05-22-2003, 05:58 PM

Muffinstuffer...your reliability in these last few posts have shown me that you have an honest desire to do what is right and good.

...and that is a wonderful example of the benefits of 'principle morality' over 'authoritative morality'.

Welcome to humanism.

Muffinstuffer · 05-22-2003, 06:03 PM

Don't get too excited. Plans to convert to secular humanism aren't in the works as of right now.

Edited to add: Ok, now I really DO have to go, because the wife says so. How's that for 'authoritative.'

Ronin · 05-22-2003, 06:17 PM

There is no conversion process...just be a real human.

Now quit hanging around here before she starts giving you the silent treatment...

Rhea · 05-22-2003, 06:18 PM

Please don't think too badly of me if a certain image comes to mind when picturing a user named "muffinstuffer" being summoned to come hither by his mate.

Sorry. we resume the program already in progress...

Rational BAC · 05-22-2003, 07:50 PM

Well--

I thought Muffin did a pretty good job, all things considered. Got a little overwhelmed, but that can happen. Any Christian who is brave enough (or crazy enough) to try and defend his or her faith in an atheist DF has got to expect that. Comes with the territory.

Even though I disagree many times with the fundamentalism of Muffin's Christianity, I do applaud his sincerity and effort under very difficult circumstances.

Shouldn't we all do that?
------------------------------------------------

This is a test.

Starboy · 05-22-2003, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
Even though I disagree many times with the fundamentalism of Muffin's Christianity, I do applaud his sincerity and effort under very difficult circumstances.

Shouldn't we all do that?

I appreciate Muffin's willingness to engage in a dialog with atheists, but I gather from his posts that he is unapologetically a proselytizer. I can see that he tries to couch it in the best terms possible but there is no doubt that every time he makes a convert he sees it as a point for the home team. I can't see that as tolerant. IMO a tolerant person wouldn't care how many Christians there were in the world and would be perfectly content to let people be as they wished.

Starboy

Sabine Grant · 05-22-2003, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
Well--

I thought Muffin did a pretty good job, all things considered. Got a little overwhelmed, but that can happen. Any Christian who is brave enough (or crazy enough) to try and defend his or her faith in an atheist DF has got to expect that. Comes with the territory.

Even though I disagree many times with the fundamentalism of Muffin's Christianity, I do applaud his sincerity and effort under very difficult circumstances.

Shouldn't we all do that?
------------------------------------------------

This is a test.

Bonsoir Rational BAC... I have the same thoughts when I observe the perseverance and passion of some non theists in a christian forum. Some have to survive thru characterial attacks, a great deal of arrogance etc... I have noticed that no matter who is the debater and in which forum, human nature will equaly show its " fangs".

The Other Michael · 05-22-2003, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
Even though I disagree many times with the fundamentalism of Muffin's Christianity, I do applaud his sincerity and effort under very difficult circumstances.

Shouldn't we all do that?
------------------------------------------------

This is a test.

Why should what we see as misguided sincerity and effort be applauded?

I'm sure there were any number of devotees of <insert diety name here> who were very sincere and made great efforts during trying times while <insert atrocity here> on behalf of their sincerely held beliefs.

Muffinstuffer is very likely to not be sacrificing atheist/pagan babies to make a pleasant smell unto his Lord (though the Protocols of the Elders of ORU indicate that is a common practice among Christians) as he seems a pleasant chap.

But basically you're making a statement along the lines of "Johnny sure worked hard on all of his homework - really hard, and he really feels he understands all the theories, axioms, and postulates, so we'll ignore the fact that he's dismally failed every test and homework assignment in math this year".

cheers,
Michael

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05-22-2003, 05:58 PM	#243
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	Muffinstuffer...your reliability in these last few posts have shown me that you have an honest desire to do what is right and good. ...and that is a wonderful example of the benefits of 'principle morality' over 'authoritative morality'. Welcome to humanism.

05-22-2003, 06:03 PM	#244
Muffinstuffer Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mountain Home, AR Posts: 199	Don't get too excited. Plans to convert to secular humanism aren't in the works as of right now. Edited to add: Ok, now I really DO have to go, because the wife says so. How's that for 'authoritative.'

05-22-2003, 06:17 PM	#245
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	There is no conversion process...just be a real human. Now quit hanging around here before she starts giving you the silent treatment...

05-22-2003, 06:18 PM	#246
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	Please don't think too badly of me if a certain image comes to mind when picturing a user named "muffinstuffer" being summoned to come hither by his mate. Sorry. we resume the program already in progress...

05-22-2003, 07:50 PM	#247
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Well-- I thought Muffin did a pretty good job, all things considered. Got a little overwhelmed, but that can happen. Any Christian who is brave enough (or crazy enough) to try and defend his or her faith in an atheist DF has got to expect that. Comes with the territory. Even though I disagree many times with the fundamentalism of Muffin's Christianity, I do applaud his sincerity and effort under very difficult circumstances. Shouldn't we all do that? ------------------------------------------------ This is a test.

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