Freethought & Rationalism Archive

07-24-2002, 02:06 PM

What would the skeptic's response to a claim like the following be:

"The Holy Spirit rises up in my warning me exactly as He does in other dangerous situations. Let me explain. I was in a pawnshop a few years ago looking for a router. I'm a carpenter which supplements my income as pastor and try to buy good tools as cheap as I can.
As I was inspecting a router, the Holy Spirit told me to leave the pawnshop. All I know is that He said, " the spirit of death is in here." I immediately put the router down and spun on my heels to leave and came face to face with three young men. I stared straight ahead and walked out brushing past them although they were obviously wanting to challenge me. I read in the newspaper the next that they shot the pawn shop owner in the head killing him instantly."

Mageth · 07-24-2002, 02:10 PM

I guess the holy spirit didn't think much of the pawn shop owner.

Corona688 · 07-24-2002, 02:14 PM

First off, I'd like to know who made that claim, and what paper it was published... subjective evidence's bad enough on it's own, never mind heresay.

07-24-2002, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Corona688:
First off, I'd like to know who made that claim, and what paper it was published... subjective evidence's bad enough on it's own, never mind heresay.

You can find the quote here:

<a href="http://www.truthkeepers.net/tempest.htm" target="_blank">A Divine Experience?</a>

It's actually in a place debating Christian rock. The quote is under # 2, near the end.

Angrbotha · 07-24-2002, 03:41 PM

I'd say that his 'holy spirit' is more likely his subconcious. Humans' subconcious notes a lot of things that we are not aware (i.e. SUBconcious) of, and allows people to have 'hunches' or 'woman's intuition' or even realize that unfriendly people are behind you.

Doubting Didymus · 07-24-2002, 03:47 PM

What an incredibly selfish spirit. It warns some guy to leave the pawn shop, but doesn't bother warning the guy who was SHOT, or bothering to reveal itself to the PERPETRATORS, who could probably have done with some holy spiritual guidance at the time. Was this in america? If so, the vast preponderance of christians in that country makes it likely that the owner was a christian, too. Where does god get off with this kind of picking and choosing? What about the hundreds of innocent christian bystanders who have died in shoot-ups? Did the holy spirit show up ten minutes late and go: Darn!

echidna · 07-24-2002, 08:54 PM

Quote:

"divine" experiences

And here was me thinking it was another sex thread �

Perchance · 07-25-2002, 06:07 AM

Perhaps the pawnshop owner was not a TRUE Christian?

Seriously, I would also want to know where it happened, what the newspaper reported, if there were actually three men instead of, say, one or two or more, why they killed him, how soon the murder happened after the guy left, why the guy didn't warn the pawnshop owner...

All that good stuff.

-Perchance.

P.S. Oh, yeah. And did this guy go to the police to identify the killers?

Policeman: "And how do you know it was Bob, Dick, and Harry?"
Christian Filled By The Holy Spirit: "I saw them as I was leaving the shop."
P: "Uh-huh. Why did you leave the shop just then?"
CFBTHS: "The Holy Spirit told me to leave."
P: "Of course it did."

That's one conversation I'd like to be a fly on the wall for...

-Perchance.

Coragyps · 07-25-2002, 01:25 PM

On my one and only (so far!) visit to the beautiful Republic of Singapore, I took a city bus way out to a crocodile farm, to see what it was about. I enjoyed seeing the caimans, and crocs, and their relatives, and had a short conversation with one of the workers. I bought a watchband, and as I paid for it, was nearly overwhelmed by a sense of impending doom. I got my change, and practically ran out of the shop and back to the bus stop.
I read the paper closely the next day or two, and absolutely nothing unusual had happened out at the croc farm. So I said to myself, "That was weird!" and got over it.
Moral: Shit happens, and a sense of forboding has little to do with whether it does, or doesn't.

[ July 25, 2002: Message edited by: Coragyps ]

ishalon · 07-26-2002, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth:
I guess the holy spirit didn't think much of the pawn shop owner.

Quote:

Originally posted by Coragyps:
On my one and only (so far!) visit to the beautiful Republic of Singapore, I took a city bus way out to a crocodile farm, to see what it was about. I enjoyed seeing the caimans, and crocs, and their relatives, and had a short conversation with one of the workers. I bought a watchband, and as I paid for it, was nearly overwhelmed by a sense of impending doom. I got my change, and practically ran out of the shop and back to the bus stop.
I read the paper closely the next day or two, and absolutely nothing unusual had happened out at the croc farm. So I said to myself, "That was weird!" and got over it.
Moral: Shit happens, and a sense of forboding has little to do with whether it does, or doesn't.

07-24-2002, 02:06 PM	#1
TheDiddleyMan Guest Posts: n/a	"divine" experiences What would the skeptic's response to a claim like the following be: "The Holy Spirit rises up in my warning me exactly as He does in other dangerous situations. Let me explain. I was in a pawnshop a few years ago looking for a router. I'm a carpenter which supplements my income as pastor and try to buy good tools as cheap as I can. As I was inspecting a router, the Holy Spirit told me to leave the pawnshop. All I know is that He said, " the spirit of death is in here." I immediately put the router down and spun on my heels to leave and came face to face with three young men. I stared straight ahead and walked out brushing past them although they were obviously wanting to challenge me. I read in the newspaper the next that they shot the pawn shop owner in the head killing him instantly."

07-25-2002, 01:25 PM	#9
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	On my one and only (so far!) visit to the beautiful Republic of Singapore, I took a city bus way out to a crocodile farm, to see what it was about. I enjoyed seeing the caimans, and crocs, and their relatives, and had a short conversation with one of the workers. I bought a watchband, and as I paid for it, was nearly overwhelmed by a sense of impending doom. I got my change, and practically ran out of the shop and back to the bus stop. I read the paper closely the next day or two, and absolutely nothing unusual had happened out at the croc farm. So I said to myself, "That was weird!" and got over it. Moral: Shit happens, and a sense of forboding has little to do with whether it does, or doesn't. [ July 25, 2002: Message edited by: Coragyps ]</p>

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07-24-2002, 02:10 PM	#2
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I guess the holy spirit didn't think much of the pawn shop owner.

07-24-2002, 02:14 PM	#3
Corona688 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hiding from Julian ;) Posts: 5,368	First off, I'd like to know who made that claim, and what paper it was published... subjective evidence's bad enough on it's own, never mind heresay.

07-24-2002, 03:41 PM	#5
Angrbotha New Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Alaska Posts: 3	I'd say that his 'holy spirit' is more likely his subconcious. Humans' subconcious notes a lot of things that we are not aware (i.e. SUBconcious) of, and allows people to have 'hunches' or 'woman's intuition' or even realize that unfriendly people are behind you.

07-24-2002, 03:47 PM	#6
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	What an incredibly selfish spirit. It warns some guy to leave the pawn shop, but doesn't bother warning the guy who was SHOT, or bothering to reveal itself to the PERPETRATORS, who could probably have done with some holy spiritual guidance at the time. Was this in america? If so, the vast preponderance of christians in that country makes it likely that the owner was a christian, too. Where does god get off with this kind of picking and choosing? What about the hundreds of innocent christian bystanders who have died in shoot-ups? Did the holy spirit show up ten minutes late and go: Darn!

07-25-2002, 06:07 AM	#8
Perchance Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,059	Perhaps the pawnshop owner was not a TRUE Christian? Seriously, I would also want to know where it happened, what the newspaper reported, if there were actually three men instead of, say, one or two or more, why they killed him, how soon the murder happened after the guy left, why the guy didn't warn the pawnshop owner... All that good stuff. -Perchance. P.S. Oh, yeah. And did this guy go to the police to identify the killers? Policeman: "And how do you know it was Bob, Dick, and Harry?" Christian Filled By The Holy Spirit: "I saw them as I was leaving the shop." P: "Uh-huh. Why did you leave the shop just then?" CFBTHS: "The Holy Spirit told me to leave." P: "Of course it did." That's one conversation I'd like to be a fly on the wall for... -Perchance.

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