Freethought & Rationalism Archive

john_v_h · 08-01-2003, 04:24 PM

Scouts' Park Lease Ruled Unconstitutional

United Way Suspends Scouts Grants

Autonemesis · 08-01-2003, 04:33 PM

I just had to post this gem from the Yahoo message board following the 2nd article:

Quote:

The reason why some fags want to become scout leaders is BECAUSE THEY CAN'T PROCREATE! Keep fags away from children! If they want to have children, then they should become heterosexual!

I mean... WTF!?!

tribalbeeyatch · 08-01-2003, 04:49 PM

Glad to see it. The BSA made their "private organization" bed and now I'm glad to see that they're being forced to lie in it.

Stephen Maturin · 08-02-2003, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tribalbeeyatch
The BSA made their "private organization" bed and now I'm glad to see that they're being forced to lie in it.

Abso-friggin'-lutely! From the article on the invalidated lease:

Quote:

The Boy Scouts' lease of public land in Balboa Park violates constitutional separation of church and state, a federal judge ruled yesterday.

U.S. District Judge Napoleon Jones Jr. said the city gave preferential treatment to the Scouts when it leased the 18-acre Camp Balboa, even though there is "overwhelming and uncontradicted evidence" showing that the Boy Scouts are a religious organization.

"The city handpicked as the preferred lessee an organization that describes religious belief and practice as fundamental to the services it provides," Jones wrote.

* * *

Jesse Choper, a professor with UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall School of Law, said Jones' decision demonstrates that organizations like the Boy Scouts are "entitled to express their views and associate in any way they wish, but they're not entitled to preference." (Emphasis added.)

It's nice to see the obvious truth that the BSA is a religious organization getting some official recognition. Wanna be deemed a private organization for purposes of avoiding antidiscrimination laws? Fine and dandy, but don't asking for preferential treatment from the government at the same time.

The guy who decided that case is now my favorite federal district court judge because (1) the decision is right on the money and (2) Napoleon Jones, Jr. is the coolest name ever.

crazyfingers · 08-02-2003, 06:26 PM

I just wish that the general media would more often mention that the BSA discriminates on the basis of religion. I'd guess that fewer than 1 out of 10 stories I read in the news about BSA discrimination only mentions their discrimination against gays. It's very rare for them to mention that the BSA also discriminate on the basis of religion. They require a belief in a supreme being which would rule out not just atheists and agnostics but also many Buddhists and Shintoists as I understand those religions.

I have been trying to think about how to get the word out to the news organizations.

GunnerJ · 08-02-2003, 06:39 PM

As a former Scout (highest rank- Star), I have mixed feeling about news like this. I can't, and wouldn't argue against such rulings, as their legal reasoning is sound. But on the other hand, I really think the Boy Scouts is a great organisation. I just wish it didn't discriminate based on religion.

Fr.Andrew · 08-02-2003, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john_v_h
Scouts' Park Lease Ruled Unconstitutional

United Way Suspends Scouts Grants

(Fr Andrew): Welcome news. A couple more bricks from the wall.

Fr.Andrew · 08-02-2003, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crazyfingers
I just wish that the general media would more often mention that the BSA discriminates on the basis of religion.

(Fr Andrew): I agree...but homosexuality is the big bogeyman now. It sells newspapers.

Undercurrent · 08-03-2003, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GunnerJ
But on the other hand, I really think the Boy Scouts is a great organisation. I just wish it didn't discriminate based on religion.

The really sad thing is, that as I undestand the organaization, the individual troups have a good deal of autonomy. There is probably a good number of sensible, non-discriminatory troups that are being denied access because of these rulings only because of the actions of higher management.

enfant terrible · 08-03-2003, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GunnerJ
As a former Scout (highest rank- Star), I have mixed feeling about news like this. I can't, and wouldn't argue against such rulings, as their legal reasoning is sound. But on the other hand, I really think the Boy Scouts is a great organisation. I just wish it didn't discriminate based on religion.

Why don't you, as a former Scout, try to influence them to change their policies? Isn't this a little bit like a Catholic saying "I really think the Catholic Church is a great organization. I just wish they didn't cover up child abuse." Let them know what you think!

08-01-2003, 04:24 PM	#1
john_v_h Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,760	Two Reverses for the God-Fearing BSA Scouts' Park Lease Ruled Unconstitutional United Way Suspends Scouts Grants

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08-01-2003, 04:49 PM	#3
tribalbeeyatch Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: On the edge Posts: 509	Glad to see it. The BSA made their "private organization" bed and now I'm glad to see that they're being forced to lie in it.

08-02-2003, 06:26 PM	#5
crazyfingers Contributor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 13,699	I just wish that the general media would more often mention that the BSA discriminates on the basis of religion. I'd guess that fewer than 1 out of 10 stories I read in the news about BSA discrimination only mentions their discrimination against gays. It's very rare for them to mention that the BSA also discriminate on the basis of religion. They require a belief in a supreme being which would rule out not just atheists and agnostics but also many Buddhists and Shintoists as I understand those religions. I have been trying to think about how to get the word out to the news organizations.

08-02-2003, 06:39 PM	#6
GunnerJ Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: a place where i can list whatever location i want Posts: 4,871	As a former Scout (highest rank- Star), I have mixed feeling about news like this. I can't, and wouldn't argue against such rulings, as their legal reasoning is sound. But on the other hand, I really think the Boy Scouts is a great organisation. I just wish it didn't discriminate based on religion.

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