admice

to make non-belief more socially acceptable?

ebolamonger

i try to be a decent human being. that's usually the most shocking thing for a lot of anti-nonbelievers to accept: that you can be a good person without religion. i don't see any point to huge social programs or crusades on the behalf of non-religious folk. the only way to change attitudes is to change individual perceptions. i see my atheism as secondary to my basic humanity. i don't make a fuss about it unless my rights are trampled on.

(note: i don't mean that fighting things like prayer in public schools is wrong---i just think that the best PR for atheists will come from individuals interacting with other individuals).

-nikki-

Buffman

(note: i don't mean that fighting things like prayer in public schools is wrong---i just think that the best PR for atheists will come from individuals interacting with other individuals).

How does a little prayer in the public schools hurt non-believers? How does giving taxpayer money to religious organizations hurt anything if those organizations are helping people? How does saying "under God" in our Pledge of Allegiance hurt anything? How does having a national motto "In God We Trust" hurt anything? How does using public money to pay Chaplains hurt anything? What's wrong with teaching all Theories of origins in the public school science classrooms? That's fair isn't it? How does that hurt you?

Shall I continue? Exactly what things are worthy of fighting for in your mind? Exactly how much are you willing to sacrifice for principle and your "formerly" (The U.S. Patriot Act of 2001 changed things) constitutional right to express your conscience without government interference or intimidation?

We have been interacting with other individuals for several hundred years in this country and all I have seen is the non-believing community becoming more and more marginalized.

I have heard some in this forum talk about more social interaction as the means to change the current trends/momentum. It hasn't changed anything during my years on earth. The Black and Gay rights movements did not claim that there is no God. They were more inclined to claim that God was on their side. We have no supernatural Gods on our side.

ebolamonger

whoa there, i think you misunderstood me. for one, i meant school-endorsed prayer, as in teacher-led prayer...sorry for the confusion. and to me, "making non-belief more socially acceptable" is a separate issue from fighting government-sponsored religion.

reading back over my post, i see i wasn't that clear. i meant, what we can do to make nonbelief socially acceptable is be decent people. give back to our communities.

i see the social interaction issue as separate from the government/political issue. i agree, nonbelievers are more marginalized. and i say to hell with anyone who thinks i am indecent for bitching about school-sponsored prayer. but as far as just me in the social setting, i'll talk to people about their religion, i explain my atheism, i try to tell people "i'm not going to steal your children in the night because i don't believe in god." if they're obstinate, i move on.

-nikki-

Buffman

ebolamonger

Sorry! You are quite correct. I was letting out some frustration. My humble apology. I have been attempting, without much success, to identify some positive actions for non-theists to pursue that could help to stem this tidal wave of C-SS attacks. I simply do not see any measurable progress arising from increased social activity with individual theists. I have been doing that for a good many decades. It has not even stemmed the superstitious beliefs on my own street let alone on a community/state/national level.

That does not mean that I don't fully agree with your position about just being the best person you know how to be in every social environment. But that tends to be quickly overshadowed the first time you take any action to prevent further erosion of Church-State separation by speaking out against the items, and others, that I listed above. Of course I have lived in a very devout and zealous Protestant fundamentalist area for the last 23 years.

Then when I read that we should make a better effort at being tolerant with those that are Heaven-bent on reinterpreting our Constitution to cater to the writings found in their sacred Holy Bible...I get rather frustrated.

Dingus

What can we do to make non-belief more socially acceptable?

What is so bad about non-belief? I don’t think that is the problem, I think the problem is the way non-believers REACT
to the believers' overpowering ways, and then, how the believers react to our anger when expressed.

Anger is not a thing that is easily controlled by some (most?) people who are in opposition to another. Just recently, I’ve scrolled about anger control on the Internet and low and behold there are tons of information about that subject! And, much misinformation, too.

When dealing with believers, I tend to get impatient and that is not a good thing, but I’m not the only non-believer that gets impatient with the believers.

Patience is a virtue? Yes, it is a good thing to practice.

And, smiling is a virtue. But, it’s sometimes not as easy to smile either when dealing with the opposition. And, I think it sends the wrong message when we are smiling and agruing at the same time.

J

Rusting Car Bumper

You coments are well taken.

As many know I strongly forward and promote the ideas that, "the ... way to change attitudes is to change individual perceptions" and "the best PR for atheists will come from individuals interacting with other individuals." (Yes.. I removed the word "only" from your passage.)

I would say that this is the biggest way to change minds that is not actively promoted. In facts its promotion in non-existant for the most part.

Non-believers IMO need to actively engage in outreach and forwarded positive images and activities of atheists. Give closet atheists and theists on the fence who would be atheists reasons to join atheist community groups by giving them reasons to join. Groups should be about much more than Church-State seperation and complaining about other people's religions.

DC

admice

Thank you all for your posts. I hope we get more.

Here's my 2 cents: 1.Let people know, when appropriate, that you are a non-believer. 2. Get involved somehow with some group or groups who's goal or goals you agree with.

Here's part of why I posted it.

I've been searching the web and my community for a few months now regarding secularism. I'm finding there are many more of us than we think. And I know from polls and personal experience, the majority of Americans are fairly apathetic regarding religion (especially attendance). The more awareness we create that non-believeres can be ethical and socially functional, the less stigma and success the Religious Right will have.

Admice

Dominus Paradoxum

I think we should start an atheist/secular humanist charity. If we donated our time and money to helping people, I think the rest of society would realise that we're really no worse than them. And we could spread the message among the disadvantaged that they were vaulable simply as people, irrespective of what God or anyone else thinks.

admice

Digital Chicken, I agree with what you said (and parts of others). Dominus-i think that's a GREAT idea. One that non-believers are known for, unique to us, maybe supported by a coalition of groups and individuals. How can we make it happen? i know of a program Reach, that is the atheistic equivalent of Habitat for Humanity. Maybe have folks focus on that, or some other cause, but one known as a secular charity?

admice