x-member

I invited Mormon missionaries to my house once. The conversation was roughly like this:

Jon "How do I know your god is the right god"

Mormon "Pray, and god will let you know that mormonism is right"

Jon "But what if I get no answer? Or what if I get told that Mormonism is wrong?"

Mormon "Then you didn't pray hard enough and should pray more".

Jon "That's just silly".

Jon

MadMordigan

"That's just silly".

Skip the foreplay next time.

Wasatch

Kosh

It gets even better than that.

Eloheim is the Father
Jehovah is JC, the god of the OT
Michael is Adam

Brigham Young taught that Adam is God the father of JC and had sex with Mary.
But Mormons today don't believe what Brigham taught.

At least they made 3 people out of them instead of three in one and one in three, but only one God.

Somewhere on this site someone said, " We need to create our own God to disbelieve in."

Wasatch

sighhswolf

Michael....you see all those worlds we have created out there......aint they grand?!!!
Why dont you go out and grab the bestest life forms and create a another world.
If ya do a good job, I'll let you keep it and live on it as your very own...would ya like that,Mikey?
Cool.
Oh yea and by the way when ya go down there to live your new name will be Adam.
Course after ya live down there for a while, you wont be immortal, but hey nothings free
right?

The right hand ArkAngel, the smiter numero
Uno ....and the only god with which we as humans have knowledge of...Adam/Michael.
The Father of all mankind.
You see there are those who think that Young was trying to tell the faithful that the planet and it's lifeforms originated from extraterrestial intelligence, and seeding.
He said (paraphrased of course) that the earth was "seeded" from other planets in the universe...sound familiar?
And that human kind was sent here by aliens, who took the best lifeforms from all the other planets and combined them here on this earth, using an advanced form of genetic engineering.
The names used were of little importance...the concept was.
Young told the faithful that what he knew (and he said he knew much more than what he told them) they were not ready to know, and would simply not understand.
There is a certain organization that has interpreted Youngs sermons on Adam/God to be a
testament to our ancestors being highly developed aliens not the heavenly hosts.
And they also point out that only recently has the theory of "seeding" become mainstream science
not that it has been proven but the theory has much acceptance in the scientific community.

These people feel that Young had this theory in 1880's that the earth and it's inhabitants came from other populated planets in the universe.
He used the names of biblical characters because he knew no one would believe his theories/revelations at that time, and that he would lose valuable membership from the ranks of LDS. Those who were in the power structure of the LDS blamed Youngs advancing age for his unacceptable musings, and discounted the entire sermon as being the ravings of an old man, a delusional old man.
LDS general authorities have tried to hide this
revelation and 2 part sermon from Brigham Young, and they have done their best to make sure it does not appear in any church propaganda.
They have with purpose, buried this talk given by Young.
True? Dont really know.
Facts? Young said that the earth was "seeded" from other planets, a little strange that a man with very little formal education in the 1800's would have spoken of such a thing.
Especially since in the last few years we have had an explosion in the number of scientists who now think that life WAS seeded here.
Young said that he could not tell his faithful
the whole story, he knew more but they were not ready for the revelation.
I always found this interesting, because in my opinion, the whole situation was handled just as I would assume it would have been if a prophet of the church had spoken of revelations that were contrary to the doctrines of that time, or any other time for that matter.
You may or may not know it but there is a splinter group of Mormons who have taken this Adam/God theory of Youngs and adopted it, and they no longer worship the god of Bible, of course those people were excommunicated by the GA's and the Adam/God theory disavowed....so they are technically no longer Mormons.
There is also a Yahoo Group (discussion) that is totally dedicated to the explanation and study of the Adam/God theory. Go to Yahoo groups and you will find it under Adam/God.
I have always found this part of mormonism to be very interesting, historically speaking. Just between us, the new testament depicts melchizedek
not Jesus as an eternal divine being. The King of Salem in the time of Abraham.
"He is without father...without mother...without
genealogy, and has neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the son of god he continues a priest forever".
Hebrews

I assume you hold the title.

I did...a long time ago.
What has changed your testimony my friend..other than reality, logic and rationality??
I would be interested to know.
Wolf

Kosh

Hmmm. Might I recommend reading Larry Niven's
"Protector"? You'll probably have a good laugh.

JohnR

I have found the easist way to speed a Mormon missionary on his way is just to tell him your an Atheist. I have many generations of Mormons in my family and have stopped all of the from bothering me. Of course they don't talk to me anymore. Here is a good web site to get into a Mormon's head. <a href="http://www.new-jerusalem.com/CLASSICS/BOMA/postings.cfm" target="_blank">http://www.new-jerusalem.com/CLASSICS/BOMA/postings.cfm</a>

Wasatch

Post by wolf
What has changed your testimony my friend..other than reality, logic and rationality??
I would be interested to know.
Wolf

A few years after my 2 year mission, I was attending BYU, a friend of mine introduced me to the Adam/God Theory. Which raised some interesting questions, was BY a prophet teaching false doctrine, if not why is it considered anti-mormon doctrine today. I started studying. Asking questions outside the box. The whole polygamy/manifesto thing has a bunch of unsolved questions. A friend of mine in a similar situation thinks JS figured out a way to have sex with a bunch of women and stay a prophet at the same time. So many inconsistencies with doctrine, starting with the first vision, the book of mormon, the Kinderhook plates, the book of Abraham, Blood atonement, I think the church even believed in the trinity doctrine til the 1900s. A big change to the temple ceremony in 1990.
Then I started looking at the Bible, it seems to have as many problems. I'm thinking religion in general is kinda silly. Is there a God?, maybe, maybe not. If there is a God, you would think he could come up with a better plan. I'm in some kind of a transition phase. Don't know where it will lead me. My wife gave up on religion several years ago, which makes it a little easier for me. I don't know. Here I am.
Wasatch.

Kosh

Well, I guess that was probably easier than
become president and doing the same thing...

Why do you think it is that more Mormons don't
do this? The inconsistencies are obvious even
to died in the wool Christians, and many of the
Mormons I've worked with were very intelligent
people...

WHen you start asking questions like you were,
do you suddenly start getting a lot of attention
from people trying to "set you straight"? DO
the have their version of the thought control
police?

DarkBronzePlant

A good exercise to do would be to pretend that no one else really believed in god or regligion; and that then one day, you were introduced to the bible. Would you be able to believe its truthfullness then?

Wasatch

Posted by Kosh
Why do you think it is that more Mormons don't
do this? The inconsistencies are obvious even
to died in the wool Christians, and many of the
Mormons I've worked with were very intelligent
people...


As for Mormonism, and I think this applies to any fundamentalist religion or group. . .
Hearing your entire life that the Church is true. It is the only true church. JS was a prophet of god.
You hear this every Sunday over and over and over. I believed it at one time and taught it.
It gets to a point where it is true no matter what. And if it is the only true church than you have been chosen of God to be in it. I've heard it compared to an abusive relationship. You may still love it but you know it isn't good for you. That makes it very difficult to leave.
Even now I can look at the facts, but in the back of my mind I wonder, maybe in some strange way it is true, maybe the devil is deceiving me, what if I'm wrong. The fear factor that has been ingrained over the years kicks in. I'm still dangling by some threads. Don't know how to sever them, or if I really want to.
I sometimes wish it were true. but that would be the easy way and I wouldn't have to think anymore.

The church teaches the members not to read "anti-mormon" stuff. Don't read the Tanners information. Don't read the Journal of Discourses, don't delve into the mysteries, don't question the leaders or doctrine.

I'm more fortunate than most, I'm not receiving any pressure from church members or family. Its all me, trying to figure it out.

What a mess

Wasatch