Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lpetrich · 05-20-2003, 08:10 PM

Or other kind of freethinker -- agnostic, deist, ...

I don't mean wickedness in general, just hypocrisy related to one's beliefs.

Would saying "Oh my god!" or such things be atheist hypocrisy?

Would praying in times of stress be atheist hypocrisy?

Would considering religion desirable as the Opium of the People be atheist hypocrisy?

I myself don't necessarily think it's hypocritical if one is honest about it. And what I mean by honesty here is endorsing some religion as a Platonic Royal Lie.

This is from Plato's Republic (~360 BCE), in which Plato presented his idea of an ideal society. His society's sacred books, the works of Homer and Hesiod and other such works, would be banned because they contain lots of bad examples like heroes lamenting and gods laughing. In their place would be a Royal Lie, as he called it, a religion he considered false but desirable for making that Republic's citizens behave themselves.

In it, the guardians, the philosopher-rulers, are made of gold, the soldiers of silver and the common people of bronze and iron -- with the hierarchy of value implied by these metals.

Yes, the guardians come out on top.

The Other Michael · 05-20-2003, 08:25 PM

Would saying "Oh my god!" or such things be atheist hypocrisy?

No, swearing is typically a cultural thing, not a religious thing. If you swear you will usually use whatever is common to your culture.

Would praying in times of stress be atheist hypocrisy?

It would seem that way, but then again if you honestly have doubts then that would negate the hypocracy. I might start to wonder about someone who bounces between the two extremes depending upon their mental state.

Would considering religion desirable as the Opium of the People be atheist hypocrisy?

More cynicism than hypocracy there, as long as you maintained your atheism and didn't pretend to the religious practices while espousing it for the masses.

cheers,
Michael

Rousseau_CHN · 05-20-2003, 10:38 PM

On my first day in the II, I read about an atheist father who was seriously considering his children to a catholic school. He followed it up by saying that he might even tutor his children on religion subject.

i think that count as atheistics hypocrisy...and then again maybe hypocrisy isn't that bad after all...and maybe, just maybe, hypocrisy is what save us from being fundamentalist.

05-20-2003, 11:36 PM

I can't see that it is hypocritical to want your children to learn about religion. It is a very important factor in human society, and even if we could progress to a utopian society where belief in religion, crop circles, pyramids, leprechauns, etc. no longer held sway, it would still be very important in the study of history.

Tigermilk · 05-21-2003, 07:12 AM

How about when you're driving home from work and you HAVE to get to the day care by 6:15 to get your kids, and the traffic's miserable, and there's been wrecks, and it's raining, and people are cutting in all over the place, and your ankle hurts, and you need to just get home and rest and you say "Oh, please let me out of this terrible traffic"

Is that praying, even though you don't address anyone in particular? Cause I do it all the time. Maybe that just qualifies as venting.

BioBeing · 05-21-2003, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tigermilk
How about when you're driving home from work and you HAVE to get to the day care by 6:15 to get your kids, and the traffic's miserable, and there's been wrecks, and it's raining, and people are cutting in all over the place, and your ankle hurts, and you need to just get home and rest and you say "Oh, please let me out of this terrible traffic"

Is that praying, even though you don't address anyone in particular? Cause I do it all the time. Maybe that just qualifies as venting.

Do you thank "no-one in particular" when you safely get to where you are going? Would you blame "no-one in particular" if you were to have a wreck? No - then I doubt that counts as hypocrisy then

yguy · 05-21-2003, 02:12 PM

One becomes hypocritical by violating one's stated principles. For Christians it's fairly clear what those are. What atheist principles are I haven't a clue. From a semantic POV the concept seems oxymoronic if one uses the strict definition of "atheist".

Yggdrasill · 05-21-2003, 02:50 PM

Hypocrisy in a strong atheist would be to not believe that god doesn't exists. (Yes, I know, a double negative. I can't correct it without changing the meaning.) Hypocrisy in a weak atheist would be to have a belief (some would say knowledge) concerning god. Hypocrisy in an agnostic would be to not doubt the existence of god.

As yguy said, hypocrisy is violating one's stated priciples. You can pray without believing in a god. It might be good meditation for all I know.

beastmaster · 05-21-2003, 03:11 PM

Hypocrisy is when you apply standards to others that you don't apply to yourself. For example, if you criticize others for saying "oh my god!," then it would be hypocrisy for *you* to say "oh my god!" Conversely, it is not hypocritical for an atheist to say "oh my god!" if he or she does not tell others not say it.

orac · 05-21-2003, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rousseau_CHN
On my first day in the II, I read about an atheist father who was seriously considering his children to a catholic school. He followed it up by saying that he might even tutor his children on religion subject.

i think that count as atheistics hypocrisy...and then again maybe hypocrisy isn't that bad after all...and maybe, just maybe, hypocrisy is what save us from being fundamentalist.

Private schools can have excellent education on subjects other than religion. Oddly enough, their religious indoctination can be their weakest area.

Knowing about religion can be valuable, and doesn't require belief in religion.

If he wanted his children to believe in a god he doesn't believe in it would probably be severely weird, and could indicate hipocracy.

05-20-2003, 08:10 PM	#1
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	How would one be a hypocritical atheist? Or other kind of freethinker -- agnostic, deist, ... I don't mean wickedness in general, just hypocrisy related to one's beliefs. Would saying "Oh my god!" or such things be atheist hypocrisy? Would praying in times of stress be atheist hypocrisy? Would considering religion desirable as the Opium of the People be atheist hypocrisy? I myself don't necessarily think it's hypocritical if one is honest about it. And what I mean by honesty here is endorsing some religion as a Platonic Royal Lie. This is from Plato's Republic (~360 BCE), in which Plato presented his idea of an ideal society. His society's sacred books, the works of Homer and Hesiod and other such works, would be banned because they contain lots of bad examples like heroes lamenting and gods laughing. In their place would be a Royal Lie, as he called it, a religion he considered false but desirable for making that Republic's citizens behave themselves. In it, the guardians, the philosopher-rulers, are made of gold, the soldiers of silver and the common people of bronze and iron -- with the hierarchy of value implied by these metals. Yes, the guardians come out on top.

05-20-2003, 08:25 PM	#2
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	Re: How would one be a hypocritical atheist? Would saying "Oh my god!" or such things be atheist hypocrisy? No, swearing is typically a cultural thing, not a religious thing. If you swear you will usually use whatever is common to your culture. Would praying in times of stress be atheist hypocrisy? It would seem that way, but then again if you honestly have doubts then that would negate the hypocracy. I might start to wonder about someone who bounces between the two extremes depending upon their mental state. Would considering religion desirable as the Opium of the People be atheist hypocrisy? More cynicism than hypocracy there, as long as you maintained your atheism and didn't pretend to the religious practices while espousing it for the masses. cheers, Michael

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-20-2003, 10:38 PM	#3
Rousseau_CHN Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nowhere Land Posts: 441	On my first day in the II, I read about an atheist father who was seriously considering his children to a catholic school. He followed it up by saying that he might even tutor his children on religion subject. i think that count as atheistics hypocrisy...and then again maybe hypocrisy isn't that bad after all...and maybe, just maybe, hypocrisy is what save us from being fundamentalist.

05-20-2003, 11:36 PM	#4
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	I can't see that it is hypocritical to want your children to learn about religion. It is a very important factor in human society, and even if we could progress to a utopian society where belief in religion, crop circles, pyramids, leprechauns, etc. no longer held sway, it would still be very important in the study of history.

05-21-2003, 07:12 AM	#5
Tigermilk Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jorja, USA Posts: 920	How about when you're driving home from work and you HAVE to get to the day care by 6:15 to get your kids, and the traffic's miserable, and there's been wrecks, and it's raining, and people are cutting in all over the place, and your ankle hurts, and you need to just get home and rest and you say "Oh, please let me out of this terrible traffic" Is that praying, even though you don't address anyone in particular? Cause I do it all the time. Maybe that just qualifies as venting.

05-21-2003, 02:12 PM	#7
yguy Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,199	One becomes hypocritical by violating one's stated principles. For Christians it's fairly clear what those are. What atheist principles are I haven't a clue. From a semantic POV the concept seems oxymoronic if one uses the strict definition of "atheist".

05-21-2003, 02:50 PM	#8
Yggdrasill Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Kongsberg, Norway. I'm a: Skeptic Posts: 7,597	Hypocrisy in a strong atheist would be to not believe that god doesn't exists. (Yes, I know, a double negative. I can't correct it without changing the meaning.) Hypocrisy in a weak atheist would be to have a belief (some would say knowledge) concerning god. Hypocrisy in an agnostic would be to not doubt the existence of god. As yguy said, hypocrisy is violating one's stated priciples. You can pray without believing in a god. It might be good meditation for all I know.

05-21-2003, 03:11 PM	#9
beastmaster Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Madrid / I am a: Lifelong atheist Posts: 885	Hypocrisy is when you apply standards to others that you don't apply to yourself. For example, if you criticize others for saying "oh my god!," then it would be hypocrisy for you to say "oh my god!" Conversely, it is not hypocritical for an atheist to say "oh my god!" if he or she does not tell others not say it.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.