Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Darth Dane · 05-21-2003, 09:39 AM

If I don't meet your/the definition of "Perfect", then please provide it, so I can readjust my reasoning. If you can't define Perfect, whats wrong with my definition?

I believe you are a wee bit pissed at me Abe Smith, especially since I haven't responded to your PM.
But it seems you are attacking me, and not the logic I try to provide in this thread.

I may or may not be normal(Who would know?), but thats besides the point, the point is in the logic of my reasoning. If my reasoning is based on faulty premises, please feel free to enlighten me, as I sorely want to get fully illuminated

All is meant in good fun, I don't mean to piss people off, or raul them up, because my words are against their belief-system, I am simply trying to inquire.

DD - Love Spliff

mike_decock · 05-21-2003, 12:58 PM

Perfection is determined by comparison to a standard. What standard do we have to compare this world to? Other than the worlds we can imagine, we have none.

The notion of a perfect world is as personal and as arbitrary as the the individual imagining it. If the individual defines the perfect world as "fun for everyone", then by that definition it would be "fun for everyone".

Perhaps the luckiest people are those who imagine the perfect world being just like the one we live in. They get to live a perfect world while the rest of us wish we were.

-Mike...

Vandrare · 05-21-2003, 01:39 PM

I would argue that perfection, as in the concept, is far to abstract a notion to apply to anything real. it's all just in our heads, and our ideas of perfection are so varied and everchanging that it's impossible to project on to something. also i think that perfection is perhaps something that is infinitely just over the horizon because if you reach a goal that before you thought would be perfect, suddenly your able to look more critically and realise its not perfect after all. not even close really.
Personally i think that if we stop trying to change the world from inside our heads by trying to project our ideas on to it, and instead let everything as it is be perfectly correct, then suddenly this world is looking pretty good after all.
i hope some of this made sense to you, it's hard to explain from the idea in my head....

:-D Anna

Pyrrho · 05-21-2003, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
In a Perfect world everyone would be equally; Loving, smart. intelligent, fast, strong, wise and so on. We would know everything we wanted to know, do everything we wanted to do.

In a Perfect world only the good things would exist right?
No evil or bad things would happen to everyone ever!

We couldn't improve on the world, because it is perfect, we can't improve upon perfection!

We can't create a more perfect sphere or circle than a perfect sphere or circle already Is

My question is: Would it be "fun" living in such a world?

Of course. You would do everything you wanted to do there. And, being perfect, you would perfectly enjoy it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
I see three possible "worlds" One only with Good, one only with Evil, and one equally balanced between the two.

There is no reason not to imagine worlds in which good and evil are not perfectly balanced.

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane

The "perfection" of our world Is that it is imperfect, we can improve upon it, grow and evovle into an even better version of our selves.

"This is the very perfection of a man, to find out his own imperfections." - St. Augustine

DD - Love Spliff

That is self-contradictory. Being imperfect is, by definition, imperfect, not perfect. If we lived in a perfect world, there would be no need of improvement (nor would improvement be possible, but that would be irrelevant because there would be no need for it). By your "reasoning", the more imperfect the world is, the better, because it then leaves the most room for improvement. Pardon me for saying so, but that is one of the most foolish ideas I have read at this or any other web sites.

LKS_Blade · 05-21-2003, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike_decock
Perfection is determined by comparison to a standard. What standard do we have to compare this world to? Other than the worlds we can imagine, we have none.

If a world becomes 'perfect' (by the definition given by Darth Dane, ie. everyone was equal) then that level becomes the standard, and thus if perfection is a comparison to standards, the world is no longer perfect, it is standard (if that makes any sence to anyone). Vandrare is right in saying perfection is far to abstract a notion to apply to anything real.

Quote:

Darth Dane
Yes, but in a perfect world, all teh inhabitants would not have a different opinion as to how the world should be, it is perfect ---> Everybody "Loves" it!

This suggests your definition of perfection is not equality, but uniformity. I cannot percieve such a world as perfect. If we all thought the same thing are we still really concious? Are we reduced to just another unifornmed part of the ultra efficient machine that is your perfect world? As with all things, perfection is relative. There is no perfection without imperfection.

johngalt · 05-22-2003, 01:29 PM

Technically, the world would never truly be perfect because everyone has a different idea of what the perfect world is.

Darth Dane · 05-22-2003, 02:19 PM

This suggests your definition of perfection is not equality, but uniformity. I cannot percieve such a world as perfect. If we all thought the same thing are we still really concious? Are we reduced to just another unifornmed part of the ultra efficient machine that is your perfect world? As with all things, perfection is relative. There is no perfection without imperfection.

Yes, this leads to believe that we are indeed living in the most perfect of worlds, could you imagine Reality being any other way, that would be better?

DD - Better Spliff

John Page · 05-22-2003, 03:02 PM

The World is perfect, it is I that differ.

Darth Dane · 05-22-2003, 03:09 PM

Sorry for the inconvenience..

DD - Love Spliff

John Page · 05-22-2003, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
[BCould we change our perception of the World/Reality so they are in sync?[/B]

Darn, Darth Dane, now you spoiled it!!

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05-21-2003, 09:39 AM	#11
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	If I don't meet your/the definition of "Perfect", then please provide it, so I can readjust my reasoning. If you can't define Perfect, whats wrong with my definition? I believe you are a wee bit pissed at me Abe Smith, especially since I haven't responded to your PM. But it seems you are attacking me, and not the logic I try to provide in this thread. I may or may not be normal(Who would know?), but thats besides the point, the point is in the logic of my reasoning. If my reasoning is based on faulty premises, please feel free to enlighten me, as I sorely want to get fully illuminated All is meant in good fun, I don't mean to piss people off, or raul them up, because my words are against their belief-system, I am simply trying to inquire. DD - Love Spliff

05-21-2003, 12:58 PM	#12
mike_decock Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 1,505	Perfection is determined by comparison to a standard. What standard do we have to compare this world to? Other than the worlds we can imagine, we have none. The notion of a perfect world is as personal and as arbitrary as the the individual imagining it. If the individual defines the perfect world as "fun for everyone", then by that definition it would be "fun for everyone". Perhaps the luckiest people are those who imagine the perfect world being just like the one we live in. They get to live a perfect world while the rest of us wish we were. -Mike...

05-21-2003, 01:39 PM	#13
Vandrare Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brisneyland Posts: 854	I would argue that perfection, as in the concept, is far to abstract a notion to apply to anything real. it's all just in our heads, and our ideas of perfection are so varied and everchanging that it's impossible to project on to something. also i think that perfection is perhaps something that is infinitely just over the horizon because if you reach a goal that before you thought would be perfect, suddenly your able to look more critically and realise its not perfect after all. not even close really. Personally i think that if we stop trying to change the world from inside our heads by trying to project our ideas on to it, and instead let everything as it is be perfectly correct, then suddenly this world is looking pretty good after all. i hope some of this made sense to you, it's hard to explain from the idea in my head.... :-D Anna

05-22-2003, 01:29 PM	#16
johngalt Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 204	Technically, the world would never truly be perfect because everyone has a different idea of what the perfect world is.

05-22-2003, 02:19 PM	#17
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	This suggests your definition of perfection is not equality, but uniformity. I cannot percieve such a world as perfect. If we all thought the same thing are we still really concious? Are we reduced to just another unifornmed part of the ultra efficient machine that is your perfect world? As with all things, perfection is relative. There is no perfection without imperfection. Yes, this leads to believe that we are indeed living in the most perfect of worlds, could you imagine Reality being any other way, that would be better? DD - Better Spliff

05-22-2003, 03:02 PM	#18
John Page Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: US Posts: 5,495	The World is perfect, it is I that differ.

05-22-2003, 03:09 PM	#19
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	Sorry for the inconvenience.. DD - Love Spliff

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