Laera

So god created everything for us, according to the bible, right? This includes the sun, correct? This also includes the rest of the uncharted universe that human eyes will never see, no?

According to a lot of xians I've talked to, he created the world perfect without death - then Eve ate an apple.

So, when god created the sun, it was meant to be around forever (since it's perfect, like all of creation?). But since we can detect the sun's decay, and we see dying stars, we know it will one day die.

Did god make our sun so it would one day fail us? Or is the "fall of man" the cause of that one too... somehow...

[edited for clarity]

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Laera ]</p>

Joel

But you see, to detect the sun's decay and dying stars you're using that evil hoodoo devil magic called science. Godly people know better than to believe something as factual and demonstrable as that. The only real knowledge comes from Gawd!!!!

lpetrich

And there is, of course, the problem of the fossil record. Living things have been dying for the last 3.6+ billion years -- there are some fossil bacteria found in rocks with that age, and some possible geochemical evidence for even older life, in the form of characteristic isotope abundances. Suggesting that these rocks have lots of bacterium corpses mangled beyond visual recognition.

Predatory behavior -- living things eating other living things -- is more difficult to date, but some protists swallow their prey whole (endocytosis), suggesting that this ability emerged ~ 1 - 2 billion years ago, when they started diversifying.

Animals eating other animals is evident as far back as the Cambrian (~ 500 m.y.), where some trilobites have been found with Anomalocaris bite marks.

Such marks have been found on many later fossils; bones are sometimes found where a stomach would be, and also in coprolites (fossil excrement).

There is sometimes very direct evidence, such as fossils of fish that had choked on other fish. These fish were clearly guilty of one of the Seven Deadly Sins: gluttony. So there was sin on this planet long before humanity emerged.

lpetrich

It had been a common belief that all animals had been vegetarians in the Garden of Eden, that lions never had a taste for lamb. In the early 19th cy., the pious biologist Hugh Miller was very perplexed by the clear fossil evidence of carnivores, and he concluded that these beasts had been possessed by demons.

Albion

So if they wre vegetarians, that means that plants weren't alive. And if they weren't alive then, they aren't alive now, right? since things have only ever degenerated since the Fall. So much for eucaryotic cells all looking so similar.

This is what that nasty atheistic science does for you. Much better to just stop thinking about things and do as you're told.

sighhswolf

I wonder how theists feel about the skeletal remains of a nine thousand year old cave dweller being linked genetically, a perfect match establishing a direct link , to a present day history teacher in the British Isles?
The oldest genetic link ever found establishing a direct family relationship.
This history teacher's DNA matched the 9,000 year old skeletal remains thereby creating a family link of over 400 generations.
Amazing.

Wolf

RogerLeeCooke

Alas, I know what they'd say. They'd say it's proof that radioisotope dating is a fraud. Or maybe DNA is a fiction. Or maybe both.

missus_gumby

Sighhswolf, any chance of a link? It sounds fascinating.

Martin

lpetrich

Where is this from? I don't want to go on an Internet-search wild-goose chase.

And I don't think that non-Fundies would be terribly bothered by such a discovery; the Fundies are a different story.

Also, I am reminded of the Aztec belief that it was necessary to perform human sacrifice in order to to keep the Sun from going dim and the world from ending (the Gods find human hearts very yummy, it seems).

sighhswolf

Martin,
This did not come from an internet site,
it was a special on TLC, although there is much info on the web. I just typed in adriantarget as keyword and found lots of info.
The teachers name was Adrian Target, there were a lot of comments on the fact that the DNA from the skeletal remains matched up with A history teacher.
"By DNA sequencing, they linked the Cheddar Man, a full skeleton of a 23 year old, 5'11" caveman dating back to the 7th century B.C with a living person, a 43 year AdrianTarget who lives less than a mile from Gough's Cave where the skeleton was found. Neat Jurassic Park stuff, as the kids would say. It could change the whole face, the methodology and the form of genealogy. Huge databases are being developed, mostly for criminal traces at this time, and future bases are being planned, particularly by insurance companies. A TV series is planned in Britain, the whole nine yards. The link came through Adrian's female side."
From the web.
Damned amazing.....
Wolf <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

[ August 24, 2002: Message edited by: sighhswolf ]</p>