lpetrich

I think that "fraud" is a rather strong word here.

"Fantasy", perhaps?

Sort of like what most people believe about the deities of Mt. Olympus.

southernhybrid

I just finished reading The Narrative of the life of Frederick Douglas An American Slave and I keep thinking about some of his words when I read this thread.

Again, he speaks of one slaveholder in particular.


Despite the fact that Douglas considers himself some kind of Xian, a liberal one I suppose, he gives examples throughout his narrative of religious slaveholders who use scripture time and time again to justify their barbaric cruelty.

My point is just this. While there are moral Xians, there are probably just as many people who are immoral Xians and who use the scriptures themselves to justify their cruelty. Xianity is indeed a fraud. It offers nothing special and it has been used to justify some of the most outrageous atrocities in recorded history.

If Christ had supernatural powers to change the lives and hearts of men, I don't think he would allow men to use his message to justify such heinous crimes against humanity. He would strike those dead or at least limit the power of those who dared to try and tarnish his message or he would actually change the hearts of men who convert to Xianity. It's all a fake, a fraud.

It may give some people the illusion that they have found peace and joy but it is possible to have that same peace and joy by simply taking a humanistic approach toward the other inhabitants of the world. We don't need dogma or words from so called godly sources to do that. Nothing has ever brought me as much heartache or disillusion as those childhood years that I spent being indoctrinated with the false message of Xianity. Having been freed of that has allowed me to live a better life. It has allowed me to be a more empathetic person, one freed from myth and the contradictory dogma of religion.

Rhea

Oh, okay. I was just wondering about which groups he included in his accounting of Christians. SInce I know many of them disagree on this point, I was trying to figure out his take. Thanks.

So yes to Catholics, no to Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons.

Huh? You don't seem to have a good handle on Mormonism. Well, I don't hugely, either, but I think they are pretty clear on their adherence to the doctrines of Jesus. AS much as, say the Catholics are. You know? I mean, the Catholics have significantly more non-biblical interpretations of God's will - from a quantity standpoint (Papal revelation and inspiration) - than Mormons do, don't they?



But I suppose if you exclude the Catholics then Christianity isn't the biggest any more, so that would be a big problem. Hmmm.

Soul Invictus

I've posted a few threads on understanding what it means to be a Jew. I mentioned how I attended a debate and the young woman said she was a converted Jew. Now this was an American white girl. I proposed a question that failed to get answered. I can identify with the aspect that being Jewish is relative to a particular tradition, thus a religious following, but I asked her to elaborate on how is a Jew an actual ethnicity. An example would be the Yoruba people of Africa. They have their own particular spirituality, culture, etc, however innately they are African, thus you cannot convert to being African, as you can't convert to being Chinese, or any other race of people with identifiable land areas that they come from. Just to follow, what would a Jew be innately, an Eastern European?

Soul Invictus

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Soul Invictus
[B]I've posted a few threads on understanding what it means to be a Jew. I mentioned how I attended a debate and the young woman said she was a converted Jew. Now this was an American white girl. I proposed a question that failed to get answered. I can identify with the aspect that being Jewish is relative to a particular tradition, thus a religious following, but I asked her to elaborate on how is a Jew an actual ethnicity. An example would be the Yoruba people of Africa. They have their own particular spirituality, culture, etc, however innately they are African, thus you cannot convert to being African, as you can't convert to being Chinese, or any other race of people with identifiable land areas that they come from. Just to follow, what would a Jew be innately?

Hedwig

I'm truly glad that thinks worked out so well for you. I grew up in the Southern Baptist church right here in Oklahoma as well and I got the polar opposite. All I received from church was guilt and pain and the message that I would never be good enough. I tried to slit my wrists once before I ever left the church (I really relate to Opera Nut here) and then twice more after I was pretty much told to leave and not come back.

That's the thing. My church would have been convinced that your church offered no salvation and that you would have lead me astray, as a youth minister.

And the hell of it is that they are every bit as right as you are. And there's no way for anyone to judge which church is correct and which is incorrect.

mike_decock

Magus, I'm glad to hear that you have found a source of happiness and that you were able to break out of those years of depression and suicidal thoughts.

From the accounts of Opera Nut and myself, can you see that Christianity is not a universal cure for depression and can be a catalyst for depression instead?

-Mike...

Flynn McKerrow

Actually, no to Catholics as well, as far as he's concerned. I can't remember which thread I read all about his disdain for Catholicism.

Starboy

"God never intended." Kevin can't you see how presumptuous it is to make such a statement. How can anyone else determine if you know what "God never intended." In fact, the huge variety of Christianity that have persisted for so long is evidence that it is not possible to determine what god did or did not intend. I suppose you speak with such surety because you have been taught to accept your feelings as actual knowledge. We live in an age where we know better than that. If it were any human activity other than religion people presenting their “truth” claims based only on their feeling would be considered cooks or frauds. Which are you Kevin? Or are you just out of sync with the 21'st century?

Starboy

mike_decock

Actually, if God is both omnipotent and omniscient, then He brought this world into existence knowing exactly every event that would occur. How could this world be any different than God had intended it to be from the moment of creation?

It means that God is either ignorant or malicious.

-Mike...