AnaniasNin

So obviously I haven't heard too many sermons on this question. But glossing over the contradictions and taking the gospels at face value, we find Judas selling out Jesus for a rather piddling sum (I'm told) of thirty pieces of silver, later returning the money and hanging himself or tossing off a cliff perhaps (Acts).

The case for villiany: He betrays a friend who must have been exceptional in some ways, even if the miracles were blown up a bit. His motivation beyond money is never made clear. Dante places him in the mouth of Satan. His name is synonymous with traitor. There is none lower.

The case for hero: Would God's plan for Jesus and mankind have taken root without a betrayer, Judas of someone else? Obviously the Romans had no clue how to find and punish Jesus for the heresy he was teaching, and it isn't made clear that the Jews who wanted him dead could or would have fingered him. What if there had been no betrayer and the whole snit the Jews were in had passed? In that one must believe the entire drama was God's plan, can Judas be held responsible for playing a part that needed playing?

Grad Student Humanist

What about Luke, Chapter 22, Verse 3, which reveals that Judas is a pawn of Satan? Thus, he is not responsible for his actions (although most Xtians would, I'm sure, argue that Satan "enters" into Judas because Judas is a bad person anyway). Judas is as much a pawn of God's schemes as the Pharoah in Exodus.

I've always thought that Judas is the "fall guy" in the Gospel stories. So I love other works which cast him sympathetically or as the hero, such as Jesus Christ Superstar or the wonderful Borges story "Three Versions of Judas."

Jan Haugland

One can also speculate about why Judas suddenly decided to betray Jesus just after the anointing incident.

The anointing was no impulsive act from one person. The idea that Judas was offended because of the high cost of the oil, and was motivated by personal greed, is quite implausible. It's obviously that Magdalene could never have bought such an expensive oil herself. Obviously many or at least some rich (and powerful!) benefactorers of Jesus had contributed to it. It had been a group effort. Why? It meant that Jesus' followers officially recognized Jesus as king. This was a political act of rebellion.

So, Judas may well have been a follower of Jesus because of the moral/religious message. He now realized where they were heading: open confrontation with the Roman authorities and with the powerful priests, both at the same time. Obviously, if it came to conflict, the lives of everyone who were known to be associated with Jesus would have been in danger. It is quite possible an act of self-preservation from Judas' part to betray Jesus. Maybe not only pure cowardize; he may have been repulsed by such a political act.

Some other facts that doesn't sit well in the gospels, closely related to this issue: Why did Jesus need to be betrayed? Jesus is shown moving openly about in the gospel accounts. That means they would not need a traitor to find him. Judas' betrayal only makes sense if Jesus' whereabouts were secret. Obviously, even how Jesus looked like was secret if we should take the accounts of Jesus' arrest seriously!

It is obvious, therefor, that if these accounts are correct, then the stories about Jesus' riding on a mule into Jerusalem and other accounts about publicly performed acts are fiction (or at least exagarrations).

What picture do we have? One of a secret group of revolutionaries, anointing their leader to king over Israel, only to have him betrayed to the Romans and executed shortly afterwards. Many details of the real story are still in the gospels, despite the attempts by his followers to make this disaster look like a triumph and a planned sacrifice.

I'm not saying this is the facts about the case, but the story (stories) about the betrayal raises a few interesting questions.


- Jan

...who rants and raves every day at Secular Blasphemy

Baidarka

I think that this narrative is very strange.
Question #1 Does Jesus magically reveal that Judas is planning to betray him or does he order Judas to betray him (Hugh J. Schonfield,The Passover Plot)?
Question #2 Do all the other disciples witness that Judas has " dipped his hand into the bowl with " Jesus, and has therefore been revealed as a betrayer.
Question #3 If the other 11 knew that Judas was about to betray them why didn't they stop him?
Question #4 Are we to believe that the other 11 only understood this in hind site? If so why didn't they understand something so unambiguous as it was happening at the Last Supper?


Matthew 26:

20When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve. 21And while they were eating, he said, "I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me."
22They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, "Surely not I, Lord?"
23Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."
25Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"
Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."[1]

Baidarka

Jan Haugland:

"It's obviously that Magdalene could never have bought such an expensive oil herself."

Why is this obvious? How much money did the oil cost? How much money did Mary Have?
If she was Jesus' "Beloved Disciple" she might have had the movements treasury at her disposal.
She may have been his girl friend or wife or who knows what. She may have been a wealthy widow who put her wealth into the cult.
Nothing in the NT is obvious! Its all a murky mess!

happyboy

no no, baidarka, it's NOT a murky mess: just squint your eyes, believe really really hard, and shut down your reasoning abilities, and any and all inconsistancies go away.

happyboy, savior of the creationists

Jan Haugland

The NT is very emphatic that those who walked with Jesus were working class or even lower. Jesus had no home, owned nothing except his clothes and what he could carry. Remember the middle class did not exist at the time; there was a huge gap between normal poor working class people and a small group of very rich people. The few people Jesus met who were rich are noted as such, as you might imagine.

The balm, one pint of it, cost around a whole year's wages for a worker.

Think a pint of anointing oil costing ~$40,000 today.

You'd have to be very rich to afford it. And it's not something done without a very serious purpose.


- Jan

...who rants and raves every day at Secular Blasphemy

Baidarka

- Jan Haugland
The NT is very emphatic that Jesus rose from the dead and is God incarnate!
The NT tells us that Jesus and his disciples visited and dined with the rich.
The NT tells us that ( Acts 5) Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead by God because they didn't hand all their money over to Peter.
The Jesus Cult was probably run by money hungry con men like any of the many faith healing cults of today.
Jesus started with harmless party tricks like turning water into wine and worked his way up to healing the blind and raising the dead.
Reverend Moon and Benny Hinde claim that they own nothing also.
In the NT the rich are always told to give their money to "The Poor".
The word Ebonite which is one of the earliest names for the movement means "the poor"(I read this some where maybe some one who knows more about Aramaic then I could confirm or denigh this translation).
So "the poor" could have been the Ebonites.
The unscrupulous religious cons of today are run by men and women who say wonderful things to their followers. They speak of God and charity. They tell us to feed and cloth the poor and then they fill their pockets with the money that they rob from the gullible.
Where does it say that all " that those who walked with Jesus were working class or even lower"?
Why do you think that the NT, which is filled with so many lies and or mistakes, is accurate on this point about the poverty of his disciples.
I think that Jesus' dog and pony show was very successful when he played to the very gullible people of the Galilee but when he tried to go big time conning the pilgrims in Jerusalem he was out of his league, playing to a much more sophisticated audience.

Proxima Centauri

Here's a nice poem about poor Judas.

Grad Student Humanist

Cute verse. My personal favorite is the poem "Saint Judas" by the American poet James Wright